I thought these things might be clues.

Courageous Man Refuses to Believe he has Cancer

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  • True Grit. The American Way!

  • Orac posted this, and then actually got a comment from a quack who's actually a "PhD", which led to a huge smackdown!

    • I am not sure what the point of that even is.

      Do you want your doctor to instantly to do the most profitable thing every time you walk in the door?

  • No, and it's a good thing pediatricians and Internal Med docs don't remove tonsils or amputate legs

    • Yeah, so he says that preventative care is riembursed as well as surgery. Is that not true?

      At least in the second one he is not saying that the same doctor would be doing the preventative and the surgery. Just that one pays less and therefore is not done as well as it should be.

      He is in error in the first one. But you can see again how the system might encourage a doctor to find the easy for them solution when that is the best reimbursed solution.

      • Wrong again Red,

        You think insurance companies like paying for unnecessary surgery? Which pediatrician makes more money from a patient - the one who sees a kid five times a year for sore throats, or the one who sees that same kid once a year for a checkup?

        I agree surgeons like to do surgery, but GPs have no monetary incentive to refer you to a surgeon if you don't need it.

  • You're picking and choosing on irrelevant technicalities when the larger point is still valid. I tell you, this is all I see libertarians do. What do you think should be done? Just keep going with the "free market" thingy there on insurance? I really don't know what most libertarians want.

    BTW, it's indeed true that many surgeons will like to do surgery even if it's not absolutely necessary.

  • Not really Andyo.

    The point of this thread was the idea that doctors are conspiring against us to get rich. All I've done is show you the leader of your party was elected on that very same conspiracy theory. I understand it's not as funny when it's your hero who has been shown to be the crackpot, but like it or not, it's relevant to everyone.

    • Well, the point of the thread was to comment on people that try to argue positive thinking as healthcare.

      You tend to use negative thinking as political analysis.

      the idea that doctors are conspiring against us to get rich

      At least in the second clip Obama isn't saying that at all. He is talking about preventative care not being reimbursed well so therefore is not well done over the system. I am sure he was shown statistics that showed him that investment in preventative care could reduce healthcare costs.

      He is making the point with a few examples that are flawed, and doesn't make the point clearly. But that doesn't make him a crackpot.

      Maybe if you lift up the tin foil hat a few inches just some of the radio signal can get into your brain.

    • "Conspiring" is not really the word you want here, is it? They do have the incentive for individual gain, and that's the point. Scrupulous doctors may not do it, but do you have that much faith in humans that the great majority of them won't?

      BTW, this guy is not my leader. I would actually think it'd be nice to live in a world that the libertarians think is feasible.

      • I'm a pretty skeptical guy, but I trust my doc more than I trust Obama.

        • Well your doc would be kind of too busy to treat hundreds of millions of people, I guess? And because you don't trust Obama it means that everything that comes out of his mouth must be a lie, even when it's verifiable, or just common sense?

          • Let's just say half of what he says is a lie (pretty safe assumption for lawyers). Not someone I would want vetoing my doctor's advice. Granted, you're willing to accept those lies for The Party, but the reality is, someday (maybe 3 years, 7 years, 11 years...), The Party will lose an election and suddenly you'll be worried about the lies.

  • Nah, this hat seems to keep me from thinking SUVs cause earthquakes.

  • Seems to me what Syngas posted is just Obama talking about how the health care system is broken.

    In the first case, it's easier and more profitable (in some cases v. actually UNprofitable) to just take out the tonsils rather than spend the time and investigate the underlying cause. I don't think that means doctors are crooked or unscrupulous or any other conspiracy theory. I went to a doctor - nice guy, not trying to rip me off, I'm sure - who charged me $150 which I paid out of pocket 'cause I couldn't find my insurance card. When I did find it and submit, he had to refund $120 because all the insurance company allowed for the procedure he did was $30.

    In the second case, that is about preventative medicine and that is not what most doctors are looking at. The way things are set up, they are just going to deal with the bad results - not spend time and money on getting the patient in shape...

    Is this a conspiracy? Are doctors evil? Is it what was so basically summed up as the titles of the youtube videos? I don't think so but I don't have a tin foil hat and I'm not a teabagger (ha! I still can't get over that name that they willingly call themselves).

  • Before we let physicians entirely off the hook, I think there are good reasons to suppose that many Caesarean sections are performed for the convenience and/or profit of the physician.



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