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Stop Worrying People, Obama has this.

Today 8:04 AM Obama Refers To Egypt

Speaking at the National Prayer Breakfast, Obama mentioned Egypt, praying that "a better day will dawn in Egypt and throughout the world."



Not Obama. God. Oh, wait...

"praying", ay? well i guess i have a pretty good idea of how most commenters here think about how valuable or useful THAT might be. good thing you elected your "atheist sympathetic" president.

people who REALLY pray don't just sit on their asses and hope things work out.

There is no such thing as "Really" praying. It's all talking into your armpit.

you're just not using my definition (which is not my invention and if you knew more about religion you'd know this) which is that true prayer is not just "talking into your armpit" but putting your hopes/intentions into action, insofar as it's possible. for instance, "praying" for a sick friend actually includes seeking medical help for him/her.

but i too have seen the highly visible/vocal morons you base your definition of prayer on, and understand where you're coming from. i'm here to tell you that it's not always/supposed to be like that. it's just that religious people with any true understanding (if you can accept there might be such a thing) are hard to find on the interwebs, or wherever you're getting your ideas.

I am fimiliar with this trick.

If you pray and something good happens: Its the miraculous power of Prayer.

If you pray and nothing happens: God helps those that help themselves.

If you make something happen for yourself: You are blessed with God's Gift.

God is really blessed if he does, blessed if he doesn't.... People on the other hand...

"praying" for a sick friend actually includes seeking medical help for him/her.

Why can't you just skip the praying and go right to the seeking medical help part?

You have to check in with God first to see if he approves of their sexual activities before taking them to a doctor.

I checked on the meaning of 'True Prayer' and got- "Prayer is a way offered by the Holy Spirit to reach God. It is not merely a question or an entreaty. It cannot succeed until you realize that it asks for nothing. How else could it serve its purpose? It is impossible to pray for idols and hope to reach God. True prayer must avoid the pitfall of asking to entreat. Ask, rather, to receive what is already given; to accept what is already there."

The last statement seems to fit with RedSeven's feelings. If you pray 'truly' for what you already have, how can it fail? If you pray for anything you will receive nothing, and thus prove the efficacy of prayer!

sorry pedantsareus. you are, of course, correct with "definitions" insofar as your oed or whatever makes them. red7 is also correct about how the concept of "prayer" is usually seen and defined, both by the nominally religious and the anti-religious, in the public sphere. i also like your buddhist quote below, btw, which also seems to back up your definitions of prayer.

when i mentioned "my definition" i hope you all realized i was speaking from and "insiders perspective", and one not easily reached, or understood, by "outsiders", so it was a bit unfair of me.

i should be working with the "standard" and accepted definitions here, and not bringing up "insider" definitions which few know, or care about.

but i wanted you all to know, fwiw, that prayer actually includes action, in many religions (not just the jewish one, which i obviously have the most understanding of) but i admit it takes years of study, and "probing the depths" to be able to see the definition i was referring to. it is not commonly accepted and i was wrong, i think, even to use the word "definition" to describe it.

i stand corrected- and still hope that some of you are willing to see my point, which is, again, useless and wrong to bring into public discussion, where agreement on definitions is so important- as you so often, and wisely, point out.

You can, but if things go badly, it's your fault for not including the "praying" part of praying. Red7 forgot to include that as the corollary to "If you make something happen for yourself: You are blessed with God's Gift."

Man, that's a relief. Here I thought he'd do nothing.

What about this exhortation from The Buddha? Pray not! the Darkness will not brighten! Ask Nought from the Silence, for it cannot speak! Vex not your mournful minds with pious pains! Ah! Brothers, Sisters! seek

Nought from the helpless gods by gift and hymn,
Nor bribe with blood, nor feed with fruits and cakes;
Within yourselves deliverance must be sought;
Each man his prison makes.

(Light of Asia, Book VIII)

I don't mean to stir the pot here, but I'm not convinced Obama actually used that terminology himself. I think that may well simply have been an embellishment on the part of the reporter, which is something I've seen a hundred times. Sadly, the word "hope" all too often gets changed to the word "pray", even when the meaning isn't there. Especially in America. I doubt Obama's quote is a prayer, as much as it is a rather thin expression of hope. That said, I do not really know the context of the quote, so I cannot know for certain.


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