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Are We Now Living in The Endtimes?

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How distressing.

Also, I know it's a tired point, but since when is socialism incompatible with Christianity? I've never understood how the god-folk can be capitalists.

Yes, exactly. Jesus, character og real person, is THE proto-socialist in history. Share all your wealth with the poor, the rich will not go to heaven, love your neighbour, etc.

How the right wing, "every man for himself"-, "greed is good"-, (and not to mention "war is peace" and "kill the criminals and abortion doctors")-crowd manage to think Jesus is on their ideological side is beyond me. Jesus would be a radical socialist if he were here today.

Socialism guarantees you will have nothing to give to the poor

Its only a charitable act, if have it within your power to let them die in the street like dogs.

You're not foolish enough to believe socialist countries don't let people die on the streets like dogs are you?

socialist countries have/had about as much to do with socialism as america does with democracy.

learn to separate ideals from practice (with other people) and to unite ideals with practice (with yourself) and it will serve you well.

(i'm not saying america is a bad example of democracy- rather, it's such a good example because of the "non essentials" that the founding fathers added on to the basic idea. and people are still starving there, of all places.)

Exactly, JB, Saying socialism doesn't work becuase some people still starve is like saying democracy doesn't work because it coexisted with slavery at aome point. Every system fails in some way or another.

That is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Tell that to the North Koreans.

I think we can all agree, that jesus would not be a north Korean.

Pretending that North Korea or the Soviet-era communist regimes have and had anything to do with communism serves two parties: One, the communists regimes by associating their existance with the admirable ideals of communism, and two, the capitalists and fascists by associating egalitarianism with horrible totalitarian regimes. So taking care of the sick becomes a bad thing, because it's "like communism".

Everyone should stop perpetuating the lie that the Soviet Union and North Korea were communist regimes. They were pretending to be, but they were pretending to be democratic and "people's republics", too.

Socialism guarantees you will have nothing to give to the poor

this is disingenuous in the extreme. but if it were true, what would be so terrible about this? it would mean, according to my understanding of your implication here, that EVERYONE would be poor- at least for awhile, and the early proponents of socialism didn't deny this- but it would promote an ideal greater than wealth or the warped "american dream"- EQUALITY. and by "equality" i'm not even getting into high-minded ideals (which i could) but referring merely to, say, the right to have something to eat.

equality. something americans are theoretically concerned with, and pride themselves on being concerned with.

in any case it didn't work out this way in socialist countries, not because of "mistaken" socialist ideals but because of human nature.

and, just doing the math, if the wealth of america (just america!) were redistributed more equally (even a little bit), no one would, at the very least, go hungry- which they are now, and which i presume (agreeing with the above comments) would make jesus very happy.

i know it's not just america that is "guilty" of this sort of thinking- the income gap in israel, for instance, is nothing to be proud of either, and the list goes on- but since you're presumably talking about america (something jesus never did, ever ;)) i thought i would, too.

one more thing:

Socialism guarantees you will have nothing to give to the poor

you're talking about what happened in countries that began with socialist ideals, and ended in the morass of human nature and greed, not socialism itself.

socialism itself, as an ideal, "gaurantees" there will be neither rich NOR poor. that's the whole IDEA. and one which, again, i think jesus would agree with. at least the part of his apparantly bi-polar/schizophrenic personality that said all that stuff about "giving away all your possessions to the poor" and "living in a communal society where all possessions are shared" and whatnot.

i understand he had his "bad days." is this the part you want to cherry-pick your version of christianity from? you certainly aren't alone, fwiw. doesn't make it any more "right".

Of course I have no way of proving this, but from what I hear, nearly everyone in North Korea is starving. Granted they're equal, unless you compare them with their neighbors to the south.

Yes, you could redistribute all the wealth in America, and everyone would be fed until you ran out of that money. Then everyone dies.

Yes, you could redistribute all the wealth in America, and everyone would be fed until you ran out of that money. Then everyone dies.

i guess that's what would happen if everyone just took their "share", completely ignored the "social responsibility" and "work ethic" parts of socialism, and sat on their couches eating potato chips until the power fails and the chips run out.

pretty high opinion you seem to have of your countrymen there.

Sorry to disappoint JB, but having had to rely on volunteers to get some projects done, I've found there are very few that are willing to work for free. The few that are get burned out pretty quick. Maybe Israel is different, but I doubt it.

how you confuse socialism with volunteerism is beyond me. and christian volunteers, in america, like orthodox jewish volunteers in israel, can indeed be counted on- and are, in a big way, by our respective governments. so i don't really understand what you're trying to say here. socialism is not based on "volunteer" anything. it's based on responsibility as well as profit being equally distributed. it hasn't ever worked in the long run for actual countries, because of human nature etc.

but it also depends on the needs and desires and nature of a particular population.

the israeli kibbutz movement is often held up as one of the true successes of the socialist ideal. i was lucky enough to catch the tail end of it's success (in the mid 80's) and actually saw how it could work, and DID work, with people who had seen it work. the transformation of the REST of israeli society around it (after, of course, the kibbutzim had gotten israel through it's toughest times) is what killed it, in the end. but i may be one of the last people in the world to see how socialism could actually work- and it did work, on the israeli kibbutz.

the factors and variables are/were many. but condemning the very idea of socialism because of the morphing of large countries origanally based on socialism into tyrannies is a logical fallacy. full stop.

i'm not suggesting that america should adopt these ideals. the american system (which is not in any sense a pure or basic democracy), when played fairly, seems to work pretty well, at least for the american people, and that's good enough. i'm just saying that socialism, when played fairly (which it never was, really) could also work pretty well.

in the end, it's always about people, human nature, business, and global relationships- not about this system or that system. monarchy has worked well in the past, too. lotta variables, is what i'm trying to say. don't fear systems- fear people, if you must fear at all.

When my country came closest to having a socialist government the circumstances of the 'average' person were better, comparatively, than they are today. Out of interest, regarding Jesus, I once had a good friend who was an Anglican Priest who often expressed the view that "anyone who is a Christian should not think of voting anything other than socialist."

user-pic

I have to take the Synthetic gaseous bait.

Our society in particular has been pervaded with socialism. Public libraries, National Parks, monuments, one I hate, Daylight Savings Time. Interstates, the. The exact mixture can be fined tuned, but a lack of socialism would Barbaric. Use your imagination, go all the way, root out every last bit of dread "socialism". Where would you draw the line?

A Socialism-free society is not a society, it is an oxymoron, a "privatiety". See how long you last on your own, Mr. Syngas, Syntea, whatever your worn-threadbare perspective is, wake up!

Jesucristo: el primer comunista.

By the way, Syngas, are you christian? Only asking cause I think someone mentioned it, and I always thought you were an atheist libertarian.

Huckabee thinks this is the end times, and he wants, again, to be president? This guy is more of a nightmare candidate than Goldwater was.

We are very curious socialist country indeed. Socialism is so rampant that endtimes are nearly upon us; look at some of the evidence:

(1) The top 1% of families have a net worth equal to the bottom 93% and they get more than 20% of income.

(2) The super-rich, who on average get a much greater fraction of their income from dividends and capital gains, pay a 15% tax on that income.

(3) Half the members of Congress are millionaires, and Congress is split between the center-right Democrats and loony-right Republicans.

I am deeply afraid that Obama will "redistribute all the wealth" - it really keeps me up at night. If we're lucky, the rapture (to which Tim LaHaye owes his fortune) will soon be upon us and God will stand in judgment. I think what happens is that God applies the rules of Milton Bradley's game of Life: God counts up all your money and you either go to Millionaire Acres (if your were good) or the Poor Farm (if you were bad). Like any modern Christian system, it's 'winner take all'.

Hey now. Even God has to reseed the greens once in a while.

It's crazy fucks like this that are going to make "the end times" a self-fulfilling prophesy.

zactly. A more dangerous version of government run programs are all terrible.

I suspect it's not so much eschatological as it is scatological.

Perhaps the word I am searching for is "batshit".

:~)

Puh-leez - my virgin eyes. "Guano"

I love how these hillbillies continue to use the word "socialism" as a foul pejorative when the recent 30 year history of Europe has demonstrated that the social democracies here have triumphed over the more market-driven capitalism of the USA. Spain is a freaking paradise compared to most of America yet their per capita GNP is much less. France is actually moving towards more income equality while all indicators in the USA point to a further gap between rich and poor with the middle class getting all but erased. Of course it isn't pure socialism here, more of a mix between the best of both systems. Come see for yourself if you don’t believe me.

Sygnas is perfectly happy complaining, thank you very much.

Of course it isn't pure socialism here, more of a mix between the best of both systems.

Gasp! Neither Left nor Right but somewhere in the Center, where perhaps a little pragmatic, non-ideological subtlety can exist?

Inconceivable!

while all indicators in the USA point to a further gap between rich and poor with the middle class getting all but erased.

Income Gaps Between Very Rich and Everyone Else More Than Tripled In Last Three Decades, New Data Show

The gaps in after-tax income between the richest 1 percent of Americans and the middle and poorest fifths of the country more than tripled between 1979 and 2007 (the period for which these data are available), according to data the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) issued last week. Taken together with prior research, the new data suggest greater income concentration at the top of the income scale than at any time since 1928.

The gaps in after-tax income between the richest 1 percent of Americans and the middle and poorest fifths of the country more than tripled between 1979 and 2007

But surely, this is because these fine folks have been doing work that is 3 times more valuable than it was in 1979! You still don't know who John Galt is, do you?

Ayn never heard of him before.

You got a job for me? I'm fluent in Spanish and English, and can pretend very well for a while to be Japanese if I don't have to open my mouth.

I'm told though that there's some racism against sudacas over there.

I know that among right-wingers I'm worse than Hitler for suggesting that any other country could be better in any way than America. To me it's positively un-American not to strive to make our country better.

It's heartbreaking to see the gains made in the 20th century systematically dismantled by conservatives while Democrats sit back and allow it to happen.

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