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See, this story about the kids wearing shirts and bandanas with American flags on Cinco De Mayo is exactly what I'm talking about. Personals freedoms taken away because you might offend someone. Who gives a d@mn if some Mexicans are offended by the US flag? If they don't like it, get the hell out of the country. And Roger Ebert comparing the US flag to wearing a hammer and sickle T-Shirt is ridiculous. I've always liked Ebert and supported some of his previous articles, but this is just ridiculous and an example of liberal ideology gone awry. So it's ok for them to wave Mexican flags on the "Day Without Immigrants", have Mexican flags on their cars, fronts of their grocery stores, on their clothes, tattoos of it, etc., but we can wear or wave the US flag without offending some immigrant, millions of whom shouldn't even be here? What has this country come to?

Well first of all I don't agree completely on how that situation was dealt, but I don't know all the facts either.

By the way, millions of Americans display the American flag without offending anyone every day, but clearly a Mexican flag offends you.

What do you think went through those kids' minds when they decided to wear those specific shirts on that specific day, though? Do you really think they just innocently wore it, in-sync with each other, just by chance? The punishment may or may not have been too severe (we don't have all the facts), but in any case they were just being dicks (which they have the freedom to be).

Unbelievable. Ok, so should we make it a hate crime to display the US flag on Cinco De Mayo since it's going to offend people from Mexico? In case you've forgotten, this is the US and we shouldn't have to hide the flag because it might hurt someone's feelings. The very fact that seeing someone wear the US flag on Cinco De Mayo is offensive to someone shows where that person's real loyalty lies.

The article stated that at least one of the kids wore t-shirts with the US flag on a regular basis. Even if it was in response to Cinco De Mayo, it is within their rights to wear a pro-US t-shirt. What if those kids were offended by Cinco De Mayo celebrations and shows of pride? Do they have the right to complain and force them to not wear the Mexican flag or celebrate Cinco De Mayo? It's a double standard created by this liberal ideology that says everything European is bad, everything American is bad, everything white is bad, slavery, the indians, white guilt, yadayadayada. You're trying to create world peace through appeasement, and if you would do look at history, you'll find that it isn't going to work.

Unbelievable. Ok, so should we make it a hate crime to display the US flag on Cinco De Mayo since it's going to offend people from Mexico? In case you've forgotten, this is the US and we shouldn't have to hide the flag because it might hurt someone's feelings.

Read again what I said. Is this how you always conduct a discussion?

The point is that you seem to agree that the kids should've been punished in some form because their showing of pride in the US might offend those immigrants or decendants of immigrants WHO ARE LIVING IN THE US. Again, it's part of a culture war, where people are alarmed by the changes happening around them due to the unprecedented influx of Mexican and central American immigrants. Anyone who dares speak out publically about it is instantly labeled a racist bigot and forced into silence out of fear of losing their job or being arrested for hate speech. Like I said before, liberals will do nothing to protect their heritage and culture, but will fight to the death to protect the rights of those who would change and/or destroy the very culture that gave them those rights in the first place.

You said before that emotion trumps logic, but it doesn't. It doesn't in a theology debate, and it doesn't in an immigration debate. I don't care is some immigrant just wants a better life in the US. There are legal methods to achieve that goal, and if you come here illegally, get the hell out. We don't owe them a better life.

Well I'm just gonna address the "emotion trumps logic" thing cause you clearly misunderstood what I meant. It's pretty clear to me that it's you who is angry. "Get the hell out"? How is that anywhere near logical or achievable? How is terrorizing them into more obscurity logical? How is thinking, nay, feeling that there's a "culture war" not hyperbolic? Why do you feel such aversion to Mexican culture?

And how is being humane and empathetic towards others, emotion trumping logic? How is getting them to pay fines (in Dollars, not even in Pesos!) instead and have them continue to pay by legalizing them, not the logical thing to do? The only emotion-based arguments I see are from the ones yelling "but they're ILLEGAL!" and "No AMNESTY!"

By the way, this post barely, in the most tangential way, was relevant to immigration. I'm not going to continue debating this Mexican/US "culture war" here myself, others can do if they want.

i often can't stand tim burton for this very reason- his "vision" is so obviously and repetitively formula. still, i have to admire his sticking to it and that kind of perserverance can pay off. after being totally underwhelmed by "willie wonka" and the "barber", and reading a few snarky reviews that confirmed my anti-burton bias, i was pleasantly surprised by his recent outing with "alice in wonderland". i had to admit that many of the things i liked about it were just more burton formula- but honed (finally) to perfection. there were some good ideas in the script, too, and whatever you might want to say about depp/carter, they are together a class act.

the danny elfman thing was hysterical, though.

Big Fish wasn't as Burton-y though, and it was a pretty cool movie. I guess I like his style a lot, that's why I don't mind if it's repetitive. And I love Helena Bonham Carter.

See, this story about the kids wearing shirts and bandanas with American flags on Cinco De Mayo is exactly what I'm talking about. Personals freedoms taken away because you might offend someone

Its not that they "might offend someone". Its that they were intended to intimidate or belittle someone because of their heritage.

Did you know that Cinco de Mayo isn't really a mexican holiday? Its origins are Mexican but its primary celebration is by Americans. Americans celebrating their cultural heritage. People of other heritages celebrate holidays with foreign origins to celebrate their history and culture, such as: St Patricks day, Oktoberfest, Chinese New year, Christmas, and many many others.

If they all started showing up at st patty's day parades with american flags, and a "Go Home" attitude, people would immediately call it insane bigotry, but because there is this "illegal" issue, thise is suddenly a blind spot for some.

Children should be taught that bigotry is neither patriotizm any more than it is racial pride.

That's funny. I had just the opposite reaction: I loved his take on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Sweeney Todd and hated his Alice in Wonderland.

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