Amazon.com Widgets

« Can the Internet Help Human Rights? | Main | Links With Your Coffee - Monday »

New Study Links Religion to Immoral Behavior


Link

 

Comments

In defense of the religious folks correlation does not mean causation. Lower religious belief correlates with more education, higher income, general better living conditions and those things are all also linked to reducing crime.
In defense of the assumptions, I give it a 50% chance that there is some aspect that is caused by religion. The more religious states are probably also more likely to have morality laws against drugs and prostitution and nothing causes crime quite like making things illegal.

In defense of the religious folks correlation does not mean causation. Lower religious belief correlates with more education, higher income, general better living conditions and those things are all also linked to reducing crime.

So you're saying that the U.S. has lower education, lower income, poorer living conditions than other western democracies, since it has more crime. I'm sure there are other factors at play here.

You're right about correlation/causation, I think this may be the same study we linked to some time ago, that is now getting more attention.

So you're saying that the U.S. has lower education, lower income, poorer living conditions than other western democracies, since it has more crime.

Doesn't it? those 1% rich bastards at the top tip the scale but they don't count.

Yeah, I bet our slums are worse than their slums. The wealth divide is pretty impactful.

I think that religion has some important macro effects

Pie in the sky/ Morality laws Intolerance of minorities

And some important micro effects

Forgiveness Sin Guilt snowballing

All those can have some effect in addition to correlating with already shitty conditions.

I'd like to see the study myself. Is it peer-reviewed?

"nothing causes crime quite like making things illegal."

That's brilliant! The cure for crime is to make nothing illegal. I love it! Are you sure you're not a Ron Paul guy, Red?

The cure for crime is to make nothing illegal.

That's not what he said.

Maybe Syngas was just saying what he thinks.

Nah, I live in the Bible Belt, remember?

I do partially agree with Sygnas. Assuming he was using some hyperbole.

Making things illegal, like drugs and prostitution, forces people to operate outside of normal societal protections and do things like, kill to protect themselves and also lets others feel like stealing from a drug dealer or raping a prostitute is somehow a lesser crime because of the victum.

Found it.

Paul, G.S. (2005) "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies". Journal of Religion and Society. Vol. 7.

The primary intent is to present basic correlations of the elemental data. Some conclusions that can be gleaned from the plots are outlined. This is not an attempt to present a definitive study that establishes cause versus effect between religiosity, secularism and societal health.

No, I think the paper being discussed is one to which Norm linked very recently:

http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP07398441_c.pdf

Doubtful. If you open up the video on a new window to check the date of when it was uploaded it says Nov. 2008. Your study is from last year. It's still interesting though, so thanks for the link.

Yep - you're right. This new article hits hard; from the first paragraph of the Conclusions:

From a research perspective it is fortunate that a socioeconomically dysfunctional and unusually religious developed nation like the U.S. exists; if one did not then it would probably be incorrectly concluded that a simple rise in prosperity to 1st world standards results in steep declines in mass religiosity in favor of secular modernity -- the actual situation is more subtle. It is also scientifically fortuitous that the U.S. is an anomalous outlier not only in its elevated religiosity, but in its elevated socioeconomic defects. If religious America were no more dysfunctional than the more secular prosperous democracies, then a viable explanation for the divergence in popular faith and nonfaith would be difficult to discern.

I especially loved the fist sentence.

oops ... a telling type: fist sentence

The study doesn't have to prove causation to be useful.

All it has to do is show that the common claim 'Religion leads to better societies' is not supported by the evidence.

If the claim were true, you would not expect to see the correlations presented in the paper.

Exactly right. I'm more nauseated by the fact that this rather obvious observation-made-study is controversial, while clueless religious and even non-religious go pretty much unchallenged when they say religion is good for society. I mean, at least make it a bit controversial, media.

If a thing can be both nauseating and amusing it is this: in a thread where the statement 'Religion leads to better societies' comes up, the Google Ads include a link to Regent University.

If I learned one thing as an economics undergrad it was a heavy skepticism towards “scientific” studies (statistics classes made me more of an iconoclast than I already was at the time). Most studies are based on weak statistics, have no control group, don’t have a long enough analysis of the material, extrapolate outrageous findings from meager data, or just plain make shit up. I hate religion as much as the next guy (assuming the next guy is also a life-long atheist) but I hate bad science more than bad religion.

And if I've learned anything from people who reject "scientific" studies, it's that they tend to generalize their criticism rather than make an effort to refute or simply critique the methodology, findings, analysis, etc. of the study in question.

Also noteworthy is the fact that WITHIIN the US there is more crime and disfunction along the bible belt than there is in more secular areas, and that prison populations have a higher percentage of believers than the population in general.

Video has been removed. Is it posted elsewhere?

Navigation

Support this site

Google Ads


Powered by Movable Type Pro

Copyright © 2002-2017 Norman Jenson

Contact


Commenting Policy

note: non-authenticated comments are moderated, you can avoid the delay by registering.

Random Quotation

Individual Archives

Monthly Archives