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Healthcare

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tip to pedantsareus


 

Comments

nice poster.

i know, i know, everything i say is about israel or the jews, but this is important to your honorable cause here:

if any country is in the "business of war" it's israel. we have a universal draft, including women, and you don't want to even know the percentage of our taxes that go to defence.

and yet, we have universal healthcare on a grand scale. lots of people move here just for this. the israeli arabs have it, too, and it's one of the main reasons they are universally against the idea of moving to "palestine".

so get your act together, america. even the horrible israelis have you beat on this, and in a pretty big way.

I don't even want to know what % of my tax dollars go to paying for Israel's defense.

ROFL @ J Becker

Folks, I'm seriously confused- do you support Obama's mandatory insurance plan? Or have you turned against him because his lame compromise is simply not what you voted for?

Not trolling into a debate, just trying to take the pulse of my liberal minded friends.

Or have you turned against him because his lame compromise is simply not what you voted for?

I think in the back of most people's heads, the reasoning is that a lame compromise might be a step in the right direction... and a single step is the most they're going to get.

As for myself, I don't think anything Obama does (or is politically able to do) will change the fact that corporate interests have overwhelming control over the country, and thus the middle and lower classes will continue to suffer.

The statistics have been posted right on this site: A strong majority of Americans want a proper healthcare infrastructure. And yet they aren't getting it...

Frenetic has it about right, from my point of view. I knew what I was voting for, and yet I'm dissapointed anyway - that damned audacity of hope can set you up for a let down.

One thing that I find frustrating even in Becker's post - and and even in the poster is this 'either-or' implication. As an insured American, I already pay through the nose. When allowed any voice at all, advocates have pointed this out over and over. Why in hell do so many Americans with good incomes, like myself, feel better about paying a big fat chunk of their incomes to the capricious, bureaucratic, greedy HMOs than to a nominally democratic government health care plan?

With a universal health care plan as implemented elsewhere in the world, the health care deduction from my paycheck would be smaller than it is now and the plan would be better. How is it that that central selling point isn't front and center in the campaign for single-payer universal health care?

With a universal health care plan as implemented elsewhere in the world, the health care deduction from my paycheck would be smaller than it is now and the plan would be better. How is it that that central selling point isn't front and center in the campaign for single-payer universal health care?

Great point- this is the way to win moderates and independents to the cause.

As a small business owner, I look at this the other way. I do web development, and have a staff of about 6 folks who I share projects with. Right now, we do everything via 1099; basically we all just outsource to each other, and have learned to make it work. But we all want to build a "real" company, and to start hiring some new people so we can focus more on training and client relations, while the "grunt work" gets handled by some newbies.

This may sound like a right-wing soundbite, but it is 100% true- paying staff via W2 (versus 1099) makes a HUGE difference in regards to social security/unemployment tax liability. And with mandatory health care, or an 8% penalty, the old-school "real" business model simply doesn't make any sense.

As a result, there are 4 students at the nearby community college who are unemployed this summer. I would be happy to hire them, and pay them upwards of $15 /hr, and offer upwards mobility in a growing organization. But I simply can't afford to pay unemployment AND 8%, and the last time I shopped around, a small business health care plan (a lousy one) cost upwards of $30k per year, and STILL demanded employee contributions and deductibles.

It is no secret that I am a free market, libertarian, business-oriented kinda guy, with a big bleeding heart underneath. But Obamacare just seems like the worst of both worlds to me. Not only is this hurting our unemployed, this isn't solving the problem!

These insurance plans are junk! My wife is an ER Nurse, and her plan doesn't cover a kidney condition that she has had since birth. I mean- that is INSANE to me. She pays ~6% of her salary to a health plan that doesn't even cover the one thing most likely to hurt her. And- just thought I'd add- it doesn't cover birth control either! What sort of redneck, backwards state am I living in?! (Florida)

The irony is, if a company offered fair coverage at a fair price, I would happily buy it for myself, my family, and my employees. But I am a frugal person, and these plans are simply a rip-off. Mandating that I buy such a plan does NOTHING to address the underlying issues. I simply can't understand it.

Sorry to rant. I just riled myself up and now I want to spit. I am a greedy capitalist smoker, so I deserve my lung cancer. But my wife is the person who SAVES YOUR ASS when you get sick, and yet, no one is there for her. It really makes me angry beyond words.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200907180006

In a "news analysis" that ran on the front page of The New York Times' July 18 edition, reporters Robert Pear and David M. Herszenhorn reported that House Democrats' health care reform bill levels "a payroll tax -- as much as 8 percent of wages -- on employers who do not provide health insurance to workers." However, despite subsequently citing lawmakers' stated concerns about the impact of the bill's tax provisions on small businesses, Pear and Herszenhorn did not explain that the 8 percent payroll tax would only apply to "employer[s] with an annual payroll of more than $400,000," as they themselves noted in a July 14 article. Nor did they note that companies with annual payrolls of less than $250,000 would pay no penalty for failing to provide health insurance for their employees.

As Media Matters for America has noted, the House Democrats' bill, the America's Affordable Health Choices Act, would establish a 2 percent payroll penalty for employers with combined payroll between $250,000 to $300,000 that don't offer health insurance to employees; a 4 percent penalty for employers with $300,000 to $350,000 in payroll; a 6 percent penalty for employers with $350,000 to $400,000 in payroll; and an 8 percent penalty for companies with annual payrolls exceeding $400,000. Additionally, the bill establishes tax credits for small-business employers that do provide health care.

As you can see Zaphod, you would not be subject to any penalty with the itty bitty payroll that you would have. Four people at $15/hr and I'm guessing forty hours/wk is an annual payroll of $124,800, not even close to $250,000 and even at $250,000, it's a 2 percent penalty.

Good of you to point that out, JoAnn; the problem appears to be far less egregious than Zaphod seemed to think.

However, anybody too small to have any leverage with the health insurance companies shouldn't be getting taxed or penalized at all, and any corporation big enough to have that leverage is, of course, probably already providing enough coverage to not get penalized.

The whole thing sounds very backwards...

I think the goal is to have an option for health care coverage that is more afforadable which is offered by the government. Also, there will be tax incentives for small business.

JoAnn:

Thanks for the info. As I understand it, the 8% penalty applies to payroll over $400k OR companies with over 10 employees. Remember: the whole point of starting the company is so that the original 6 people can get healthcare and benefits too.

6 partners + 4 new hires = 10. We could skirt around the regulation by having some of us stay 1099 and others go W2, but that's not fair to the half who don't get benefits.

Even if the limit were 20 employees and $1m payroll, you can see how this stifles growth and employment.

The irony is: Obamacare has made me a believer... in a single payer system. Kucinich for "Health Zsar"!

Remember: the whole point of starting the company is so that the original 6 people can get healthcare and benefits too.

ah-hoooooooo-haaaaa! wa- haaaaaa-haaaaaaa! i can't breathe!

it's the 2 pack a day. never mind.

sorry dude. i'm not kidding about the 2 packs a day.

but i don't have any official income AT ALL. half my income is from playing guitar on the street. good thing i'm badass. :) i might be even sicker than you. yet i'm still covered by the universal health plan here in israel, in case i should opt for chemo or radiation or some other expensive way to painfully drag out the inevitable. i'm sorry i'm such an asshole, but i recommend philosophy instead of politics. it's done me a world of good. (cough).

the whole point of starting the company is so that the original 6 people can get healthcare and benefits too.

So if the whole point is that the original 6 people can get healthcare and benefits too, then I don't understand what the problem is. I guess i'm missing something here. Are you saying that you want healthcare for the orignial 6 people all the while avoiding healthcare for the others?

Of course, you would be obligated to pay them less than $15/hr if you offer them health insurance.

The point of all of this is to eventually have it that everyone is covered for health insurance. This may result in lower wages. But what is the point of higher wages if when one gets sick they have no health insurance?

and i'm sorry, businessmen who claim they're trying to "help" their slaves make me wanna... smoke and drink a whole lot.

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