Sigh, does it seem to anyone else that when people like Mooney (and possibly Pennock, as quoted) start bandying about out of their ass terms like "philosophical naturalism" is just short of bullshitting? Possibly Pennock had an "excuse" in that he had to appease some key people at the Dover trial, but for Mooney to bring it up in a serious discussion with Coyne, it's just disingenuous. I like how Coyne dismissed it just by being pragmatic:

This debate about PN vs MN didn’t really interest me. What did interest me was the notion about whether claims about the supernatural can be tested with science. And some of them can.

This is why I'm suspicious about some or maybe most forms of philosophy, when they go out of their way to try and explain something that doesn't make sense in the first place.

Why is there a need to go into rants about "philosophical naturalism" when the "alternative", supernaturalism, has never been found to even make sense, much less found evidence for?

I think here people like PZ and Coyne are going straight to the issue. Religion when it makes claims about the natural world, fails against science and of course they're not compatible. Religion is not a way of knowledge. And if you dilute religion so as not to conflict with science, you've just become a deist. Might was well be atheist, there's no practical difference.

The video of "Catholic Inquisition..." was an interesting propaganda piece. The code word "Bible believers" was repeatedly used (although I haven't a clue what it means - it just seemed loaded in the way he repeated it; I'm assuming it means Protestant Christian, but...?). They were using Inquisition torture re-enactments from a film produced by Bob Jones University. WTF could that possible be about?

What I took away from it, was something that never occurred to me when I was a Christian, long ago: somehow torture is really integrated into the Christian mindset.

That became pretty clear with Mel Gibson and his torture porn "Christ..." movie. Here we see it from the Protestant side.

It showed up a few weeks ago where Christians aren't concerned about torture, in some poll (good thing I'm not a blogger, only a commenter :-) )

I don't understand it, and I feel like I've "seen both sides now" and thanks for the link.

It shouldn't be surprising, I guess. Protestantism, for all their breast-beating and warfare with Catholics, basically have nearly identical beliefs to their Catholic predecessors.

Thing's blowing up all over with Coyne v. Mooney et al. PZ and even Ken Miller (who I thought never really got into these discussions at length) chime in.