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The Future of Torture

Keith gets one right.



Note to self: Today Keith Oberman did something that people all over the world can be proud of, especially if they are American.

Keith gets one right.

Norm, you seem to imply that Keith has gotten most, if not all, of his previous comments wrong. Yet during the Bush administration, you and Keith were regularly doing something that might best be called the "Forbidden Dance" together. (That is, until he picked on The Hillary.)

Sir, I call on you to be more fair and balanced in your reporting.

I didn't imply that at all. You read into it what you wanted to. I haven't watched him as regularly as I used to, but he's gotten several wrong recently. The anti-vaccination crap for example. As for his Hillary bashing, it looks like we're finding that he's not what he claimed. His view of the war and the aftermath is what many thought we would get with Hillary. So much for change. I still think she would have been a much better choice for the country, but the Jury is still out for a while longer. Fair, not balanced, that's what I am.

Does that make you fairly unbalanced? ☺

Keith is right. Jerry Ford was wrong, Obama is wrong to channel Jerry Ford.

Is the Obama Administration listening?

Is the Obama Administration listening?

Haven't they already made the statement? If so, they would lose face by changing their mind now. (Losing face may seem like a trivial concern compared to big national issues like this, but don't underestimate its power.)

That was basically a rhetorical question. ;)

I think 90% of the people in the world want to see Bush prosecuted. And in the US, most on the left probably want the same. But in a way, I think Obama is right on this. The rightwing still sets the agenda, and if Obama were to appear to go after Bush, it would split the country, perhaps violently. I still wish they'd do it, but I can see why Obama does not.

I suppose it is an issue of priority. Which is more important to Mr. Obama?

A second term?

Or the rule of law?

Keith is 100% right that the ultimate lack of action against Nixon has fueled the extreme Federalist view of a "strong presidency" ever since.

It is poison on the tree, and must be loudly proclaimed as such, irregardless of the color (red or blue) of the President.

I'm not sure Obama is right about this, but I can see that he's hedging his bets. Not so much to get re-elected, but to get his agenda through congress. It would be an easier road to hoe (but not a cakewalk) if there were a filibuster proof Democratic majority.

I do think that prosecuting those who authorized and carried out the torture is the right thing to do. This would be a great example of making an unpopular tough decision for the greater good.


It is right to torture SUSPECTS? what planet are you from? while these techniques do not cause permanent physical harm, they do no produce useful information, either. and you do not know if the people you are waterboarding and abusing HAVE ANY USEFUL KNOWLEDGE IN THE FIRST PLACE....the information you get from these folks is bound to be unreliable, unlike any information they might give voluntarily through more intelligent and legally acceptable methods, so WHY EVEN GO THROUGH ALL THIS CRAP IN THE FIRST PLACE? I knew guys that sold pounds of pot back in high school that had a "code red" system in place if anybody did not check in by a certain time- all plans were changed, anything that person might know and might talk about was changed...and these were pot dealing teen don't think al qaeda has plans in place to deal with one of their higher up agents being caught or even not checking in on time?

It's all practical politics, no doubt. The dividing factor of a full-on prosecution is real enough.

But why not at least prosecute those that legalized the crimes, ie. those that authorized it all? I think both sides would be able to accept a distinction between those who gave the orders and those that were, by way of extraordinary circumstances, forced to carry them out.


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