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Bush Presidency Ends With a Whimper



What I think when I see when I read your poke (as opposed to what you obviously think) 1) After being held by the U.S. for over three years under horrendous conditions, if the men released weren't enemies before, they sure were now. 2) That the methods used (and we now know they could use almost anything to coerce information) were ineffectual. I thought this was an interesting article from an expert on what does work. 3) That even when this bozo administration possibly got something right, they blew it.

What I see, yet again, is what incredible losers these guys were. Thanks for pointing that out.

  1. Such horrendous conditions that they went back for seconds!?!?

  2. Ineffective based on what? Terrorist attacks?

That was interesting Dar. I wonder why the distiguished law professors didn't provide any references.

Jill pointed me to the actual report. Pretty shocking accusations to be sure, I'll look at it closer. Thanks.

Such horrendous conditions that they went back for seconds!?!?

I said, if they weren't enemies before they would be after. From what the piece said:

"We are aware of dozens of cases where they have returned to militant activities, participated in anti-US propaganda or engaged in other activities," said Commander Gordon.
It's not clear from that statement that they have all "returned." AND, if they had such a clear idea of what they were doing before; what they were "returning" to, why did they let them go to begin with? How do they know what they were "returning" to unless they know they were guilty of something and then, why would they let them go? Maybe they got some deeper clarification on some of them but I doubt it on the rest so....for all they know - the forced vacations in Gitmo are driving the anti-US activities.

Ineffective based on what? Terrorist attacks?

No - ineffective because they didn't get the information on their activities. They let them go because, for the ones that "returned" they didn't get past their statements:

Commander Jeffrey Gordon said the detainees had, while in custody, falsely claimed to be farmers, truck drivers, cooks, small-arms merchants, low-level combatants or had offered other false explanations for being in Afghanistan.

'No - ineffective because they didn't get the information on their activities.'

Of course this presumes these prisoners were tortured. Something you cannot possibly know.

Not necessarily torture. Look at the link I provided earlier on the Guantanamo Bay model.

Also - for Dar's, there are a ton of links. I think there is even a Seton Hall link in Wikipedia that has a lot of source info.

So you're not sure if they were tortured, but their release proves torture doesn't work.

I read your link Jill, and while I'm willing to read it again to find what you are claiming, I'm reasonably sure it isn't there. He simply refers you to your favorite press article for proof. Gee, does that mean MSNBC or Fox? New York Times, or Washington Times? Basically, he knows the bias of his readers and asks them to confirm their bias.

[The Guantanamo Bay model]interrogations were based on fear and control; they often resulted in torture and abuse.

The guy has written a book. Maybe you will have to wait for that where he will have more room to expand on the topic. Sorry there wasn't more information for you there.

I went through extensive prisoner of war training when I was in the military because of the sensitive job I did. We were taught that torture doesn't work, never has. What part of that don't these right-wing shitbags understand? To be honest, I don't even care; let's just put all this in our past. Let's make America, once again, a country that people don't hate.

leftbanker, isn't the whole point of p.o.w. training that torture DOES work, and that it's effectiveness can be countered by certain techniques?


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