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John McCain: Missing in Action

(tip to Randy)



hey when letterman's on, he's on. he scorched mccain.

i disagree with the ass-kissing about mccain being a hero.

what's a hero?

not someone who enlists in an illegal war.

if all it takes to be a hero is being a POW, then we got at least 80000 heroes in secret black sites all over the world, equally qualified to be prez.

and those figures are from 2005.

This is HUGE. I'd love to see the Nielson ratings for tonight, just how many million people saw McCain being a massive douche live on TeeVee.

Gotta love Dave.

He can call McCain a hero, because in the context he was using it to point out how he is currently acting like a frightened school girl.

Then again, school girls are getting pretty tough these days.

Yes! I just watched this a good hour ago. I was so excited to see Letterman at his best. He ruined McCain for not showing up with a beyond perfect delivery. Hitting every target.
I haven't seen anyone say it exactly right: He was a hero back in Vietnam, but he sure isn't acting like one now.
I love Letterman more every time I watch him.

That was dead on and hilarious!!

I have to say though, all you guys who seem to have a problem with John McCain being commended for his time as a P.O.W., I really think your being blinded by politics. I mean say what you want about all the bullshit he spews the rest of the time, because I agree with you guys on that, but also give the man some credit. I mean he is a war hero. You can be a former war hero and completely wrong on all the issues at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive you know. I think most Americans understand this as well.

You are right of course, and I think most of us are of two minds.

I grew up next to an army base knowing soldiers, and so war was never a romantic thing. It can kill a man's soul. "It was war, things were done" is a sad, true and inevitable statement.

Commanders understand both sides of war, understand the brilliance of an economic 9/11 attack, even as the public cries 'unfair'. Commanders generally understand the motivations of an enemy even if they do not agree, and understand that mistakes are made and people wrongly die, or simply must die to force a peace.

The public, on the other hand, has the luxury of simplification.

The public will simplify the enemy, often with slurrs to dehumanize them. The public will magnify the ills of the enemy and magnify the courage of thier troops. The public is highly encouraged to do these things by the leadership, who promote the greatness of heroes to support the war effort now and in the future. Because at one point or another a warlike mentality will be required.

We must not forget that peace and civilization are preceded by war and savagry. Free nations are not given, they are won.

War is about money. America's Navy was born to secure trade routes to Europe. we cold not buy off the pirates like the French and English, and so we had to kill them. So without force and violence, we would not be America.

But war must not get a free pass. It must be criticized and learned from.

We must honor the service we asked a man to do, while holding accountable the leaders who asked him to do it.

McCain's mission could be described as 'bombing innocent men, women and children' and for that, he was held in horrible conditions for years. He knew what he was doing, he colunteered for the job and followed orders. In this way, he has much in common with PoWs in Gitmo and abroad.

So, knowing this, how should we judge him?

It is a good question.

Fuck that. McCain was shot down while bombing, in his own words, "heavily populated areas". He was bombing innocent civilians, in other words. He's probably killed hundreds. That's not a hero, that's a war criminal. A hero would be someone disobeying orders to bomb civilian areas.

I agree with elliot5. It seems if you really fight your way through the cloud of conditioning, you won't desire to call McCain a "war hero".

John McCain a hero? He spent 20 hours in combat then set the rest of the conflict out in prison while thousands of others died. Do you think if I spent time in prison, for crashing my fifth car, that people will applaud me? I don't think so.

McCain had to go to Couric's show because, unlike Couric, Letterman asks tough questions.

Kristian Z, somehow I doubt you would be saying these things if it was Barack Obama who had this P.O.W. history. I could be wrong on that, but not too many Democrats condemned John Kerry when those swift boaters accused him of killing babies in Vietnam. Those were all lies of course, but people tend to see what they want to see is my point. Half America sees him as a War Hero, the other half as a War Criminal...Personally I think both sides are blinded by the heat of politics. If it was John McCain who had the record as a Community Organizer, would you be finding ways to discredit that accomplishment as well?

John McCain a hero? He spent 20 hours in combat then set the rest of the conflict out in prison

Side note, he crashed 6 planes in that 20 hours.

So he is a fuck up first and foremost.

Although you have to give the man credit for surviving a rather tough stint in a POW prison.


McCain's character is is miles a head of Bush. I've never considered his Navy career as making him especially qualified or disqualified to serve as president, so I've not independently verified whether the Wikipedia description of his Navy career is accurate. If it is, it doesn't jibe all that well with yours.

Sorry, its Five

"John Sidney McCain III is known among many of his Vietnam flight buddies as "Ace" McCain. This title has not been bestowed upon McCain because he destroyed five enemy aircraft. On the contrary: It was five on our side -- in fact, five of his own."

There is one craft in the list of five that apparently caught fire on the deck of the aircraft carrier. So one can say he crashed three on pilot error and was shot down in a forth possible due to pilot error.

I am sure they are paying people to alter his wiki.

If you put it in perspective, hailing John McCain as a war hero is as bad as citizens of the Middle East hailing Osama Bin Laden as a war hero, only McCain was on our side.

One bombed thousands of innocent civilians every chance he got, and wished he could have bombed more. And the other . . . oh wait. They captured John McCain and kept him imprisoned for 4 years and let him go to become a old, rich, powerful man and possible president. . . . do you think we will do the same to Osama if we catch him? We'll probably torture him for a year until his death.

This is my point, really.

Although I believe it is wrong to simply villify war. Historically war comes before freedom, and without war(or a strong national defense) freedom does not last.

Thus, justified war is usually about a person's point of view.

I think the opposite is actually true.

I think it is really hard when you are in the mindset of the military (and being raised on "Americans are the good guys") to break out - Kerry DID break out and the treatment he received makes clear at least one reason others aren't rushing to get on that band wagon and I don't find that surprising.

I think McCain refusing to leave until everyone could leave was truly noble and worthy of real praise and admiration but I think he squandered that when he didn't stand up against Americans torturing prisoners. There was absolutely no excuse for that (at least that I heard - does anyone have one? calligraph?) and that showed how much of his soul he sold along the way.

It must be horrible to think you were a better, nobler man when you were young in the face of actual physical pain - sticking up to the Viet Cong for the others around you than when you're old and have every comfort you could possibly want and you're letting American leaders in charge torture other men...Instead of being a better, wiser person, you're now just old.

From Oedipus Rex:

"Alas, how terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the man that’s wise!"


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