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Links With Your Coffee - Friday

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RE: Srah Palin Part of the reason this is such a good pick for John McCain is that Joe Biden will have a harder time being on the attack in vice-residential debates without making himself look sexist (in the eyes especially of women) and the appearance of being sexist has been one of the knocks on Biden.

New ad:

It's 3am. The oldest man ever elected president is in the hospital (again). Is she ready to lead?

Obama has been doing more since he won the Primary to win over the evangelicals then he has done to win over Hilary supporters. He lost probably all support from evangelicals last night by mentioning gay rights and abortion in anything other then negative terms he lost that vote. I am also not sure that the mentioning the right to equal pay will be enough to bring back some of the Clinton supporters. We will see. Moreover I do not know how many clinton supporters are actually up for grabs, I would guess that it is far more than evangelicals. Palin may bring no women over to the Republicans or she may bring many - it does make admitting Hilary was not even vetted look like a big mistake. Even if they had just SAID that she was vetted that would have been enough.

apologies for the lost vote repeat.

@Robinson - That made my day.

I don't know much about Palin yet, but I'll venture some intital reactions:

--Obviously, McCain has to give up the experience argument now.
So far as I can tell, Palin has even less than Obama, and simply none on foreign relations. She has the "change" credentials, and the independence from Republican corruption that dove-tails nicely with McCain's own mythology.

--Riley's point--exactly, it defuses one of Biden's greatest strength, his ability to be caustically dismissive and funny about it. And it's obviously an undisguised effort to win over former Clinton supporters.

--A political upset, but not ultimately a governing choice. The timing was perfect for this surprising choice. She's an utter unknown, and as the article that Norm states, the Obama campaign appears to devoted lots of resources to other potential runners.

--Winning over the lunatic Christianist fringe, who are lukewarm about McCain. Both McCain and Palin oppose abortion. Perhaps in order to maintain the support of women who are on the fence, the Obama campaign will have to be much more vocal and blunt about their own pro-choice views, which undermines Obama's entire strategy for trying to defuse the issue.

“They’re beyond ecstatic,” said Ralph Reed, the former head of the Christian Coalition. “This is a home run. She is a reformer governor who is solidly pro-life and a person of deep Christian faith. And she is really one of the bright shining new stars in the Republican firmament.”

Ms. Palin is known to conservatives for choosing not to have an abortion after learning two years ago that she was carrying a child with Down’s syndrome. “It is almost impossible to exaggerate how important that is to the conservative faith community,” Mr. Reed said

PS: What in the hell is it with McCain and former beauty pageant queens?

I don't think the VP matters past the initial reaction, but the pundits are going to fucking love this. Talk about stealing thunder.

Very clever pick by McCain/Rove. Now we're going to see just how stupid the American public is. I think they will go for an old white man and a pretty white woman. Personally, I think Joe Biden should tear her apart if he can. Actually it would be sexist of him not to. I predict a lot of talk about how tough it is to raise Down's syndrome child and nothing could be more difficult than that.

The selection of Palin looks like a smart move by the McCain campaign. Young, attractive, reformer, ardently Christian, pro gun, pro death penalty, and very popular in her state. By not picking Romney, McCain reinforces his (phony) message of an "independent maverick", and yet she will please the cultural conservatives without threatening the moneyed interests of the RNC. It will also play well with the disaffected Clinton supporters who care more about the candidate's gender than the candidate's policies.

On the other hand, with 1 (so far minor) scandal in 2 years of elective office, there's not much weight to the "ready on day 1" argument any more, and the inevitable comparisons to Dan Quayle may creep in soon.

The pundits will love it. It'll give them a chance to pull Hillary Clinton back into the limelight, where they can goose the ratings by promoting the Clinton-Obama drama (and subtly reinforcing the "passed over" message) without even having Hillary Clinton in the race.

Let's see how it plays out in the next 4 weeks.

I am so upset about this I'm having a hard time concentrating on work. Here's hoping everyone gets behind Obama (I hope the Clinton's work their tails off for him - especially if Hillary wants to make it to the White House....)

"I predict a lot of talk about how tough it is to raise Down's syndrome child and nothing could be more difficult than that."

I didn't even think of that. I can see it now. I don't know if I am going to cringe, laugh , cry or all three when this happens.

so it's McCain/Milf '08?

I didn't even think of that. I can see it now. I don't know if I am going to cringe, laugh , cry or all three when this happens.

Did you do any of those three when Biden was talking about his 'personal tragedy'? MSNBC ran a nice gigantic cover about how important it was that Biden suffered through a 'personal tragedy'. Remember how Edwards was untouchable over pretending to channel the ghost of dead children for LARGE CASH SETTLEMENTS!!!! because of his 'personal tragedy'?

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure about the functional effect of this move - Palin is such an unknown - but it is brilliant, brilliant strategy. We're either getting a female vice president or a black president. Either way, at least one special interest group will have to shut up about how evil America supposedly is towards them.

so it's McCain/Milf '08?

Now that's feminism!

Dont get me wrong I actually kinda like biden, but this shows just how stupid it mightve been to pick him. Who is gonna vote for obama who wouldnt of voted for him before? If obama wouldve picked hillary they wouldve been much harder to beat. Owell, hopefully I can go into a coma for the next 4 years.

@ Calligraph

I cringed. I find any use of personal tragedies as a political tool cringe worthy. There is a difference though. If she is asked how she can expect to lead the country with so little experience (2-3 Years of being a governor) and responding or responding through intermediaries that nothing is harder then raising five kids, one of whom has down syndrome - that to me is even more laughable. Not that it will stop pundits from treating it like a serious talking point and legitimizing it.

I like how every other blog I read is all about the "lol, vpilf" aspect on the announcement. But here, on the "one good move" comments, everyone is recognizing the strategic thunderbolt that totally fried Obama's chances. Game Over, man.

Game Over.

Palin asks: “What is it that the VP does?” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pak-rH0dCeA

The vpilf jokes are going to send a few points McCain's way that is for sure.

I find any use of personal tragedies as a political tool cringe worthy.

I can agree with that. The tragedy stories seem best for those 'heart to heart' talks that some in-depth investigative magazine does.

However I do feel it's incorrect to classify military service, and its repercussions, in the same category. And for the record, I felt that way when it was Kerry discussing his service (and everybody felt that way when it was JFK).

Palin asks: “What is it that the VP does?

Mocking aside, that is a valid question. Most people realize that the VP role is a dead-end job. And you can see why she asked the question: Palin obviously cares about her home state, where she has an 80% approval rating. She wants to be working. I can respect that.

Either way, at least one special interest group will have to shut up about how evil America supposedly is towards them.

SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP? You have GOT to be kidding me. I won't even presume to speak what an insult that is to a non-Caucasian race but I certainly can as a woman. We are more than half the population of the world. Males and females are small children together, go to school together, have sex together, raise male and female children together, are often each other's best friends. When do we start being a special interest group?

HOW EVIL AMERICA IS TO THEM? Since when is asking for equal pay for equal work calling America evil. Since when is asking to be treated as a whole and complete citizen worthy of full rights talking about how evil America is to them?

McCain is obviously trying to reprise his maverick and reformer role of 2000 and has completely given up on the experience argument.

Obama (and Biden at the VP debate) will basically ignore Palin and repeat McCain = Bush every chance they get.

Women will probably see through McCain's "token" gesture, as all the major Democratic women will constantly attack him and Palin on equal pay, choice, etc.

McCain will shed a tear during the third debate when he realizes, once again, that he won't be president.

it is an interesting choice, much much better than Romney, but realistically, the biggest real issue was Obama is not experienced enough ( the clnton defense), this is gone, absolutely gone.

They are clearly realizing that the Obama is not experienced issue is not going to work (did not work with Clinton), so now they are going to compete for the cleaning up washington message.

Re Biden, his job is not to attack the VP, his job is to attack McCain in a charming friendly way, be funny when Obama can't and reassure the (obama is muslim i am afraid of him group). He does not need to attack the VP.

Also it does appear to be a me too thing, if Obama can make history, so can i? But remember the democrats have already had a women candidate for VP so it is not so historic.

If you watch the video of the announcement and compare it against the democrats, these guys seem so unskilled, so poorly articulate than every one of the democrats in the last week.

Does she know much on world affairs?

Kind of amazing she is willing to be a VP candidate with a 4 month old.

After saying it, I had to look it up and we aren't more than half the population of the world - just of the U.S.

Palin's question about the VP's job is not bimbo-headed, as I read it. She was saying, in context, that she likes being active, being busy, and wouldn't want to be VP unless she could be effective.

Mind you, I don't care: I'm voting for Obama and Biden. But I think it's helpful if, when preparing for battle with an enemy, the Republican Party, that has whipped our asses like rented mules repeatedly in recent years, if we could refrain from pretending that they are paper tigers who will be easy to take down.

Most of the arguments against her that I've seen so far today have been rational. Do we really think Karl Rove and John McCain chose her for rational reasons? Because of the effect that she would have on voters' reason? We have to counterattack from the heart.

Same old policies, new face. Old wine, new wineskin (let's use their book against them). "What's with McCain and beauty queens", while a fun question, lets them play wounded and has us lowering expectations again – and where have we gotten by lowering expectations of George Bush? Or of the American electorate? We need to assume that she is a Rhodes scholar and treat her that way.

I'm trying to calm down about this and, thank you k, that was helpful. Also, I watched the footage of Palin discussing not knowing what the VP did. I agree that it doesn't seem that harmful - more a little facetious and deflecting the question. But, I found it interesting that it was posted the end of July and she was considered the third most likely candidate for McCain's VP so this shouldn't be as out of left field as it seems. Obams's team must have taken it into consideration when picking Biden.

Please don't say game over - I prefer game on.

Great, An old retard and a female Jesus freak on the Republican side. That should about cover it for most Americans who are uneasy with anyone who actually conjugates verbs and doesn't end each sentence with, "Amen."

Yeah, but you've still got a lock on the folks that start every sentence with 'uh'.

Jeez Norm, how much coffee you drink? Thems lots o links

Do you think McCain's pick of Palin as VP is a (perhaps partial and tiny but still present) effort to combat the horrific vision of Cindy as "First Lady" in the white house?

Do you think McCain's pick of Palin as VP is a (perhaps partial and tiny but still present) effort to combat the horrific vision of Cindy as "First Lady" in the white house?

Okay apparently now I'm having double posting issues. what's the deal here? Sorry!

No. This is all about attracting would-be Hillary voters. Even smarter than picking a VP to pick up a swing state.

The notion that somehow women who supported (or continue to support) Hillary Clinton are dumb enough to swing over to McCain is just ridiculous. Does McCain think women vote with their vaginas? If that was the case, they certainly wouldn't vote for someone who wants to legislate what they can and cannot do with them.

And on that note, the VP is basically an empty suit position, unless of course the President is in questionable health, in which case you could be looking at a possible President who's experience goes little beyond governing one of the smallest and remote populations in the US, and a handful of remaining grizzly bears.

Good work McCain. This is what you meant by tapping resources in Alaska?

Jill,

Be nice to the old chap. He's one of those guys that hasn't walked a mile in another's shoes, or who thinks that things have changed "enough" and the women and blacks should be happy to be where they are now. America is good enough in his eyes, and better than the rest of the world.

This is the kind of thinking that kept women from voting in the great US of A until only 88 years ago, that allowed segregation to occur. See the argument then was: blacks were getting a seperate but equal education. You guys are EQUAL, what more do you want? The argument to this mindset must have statistics. Pay scales, etc, just as statistics re: spending in white vs black schools.

What he IS however is appropriately proud of America, but misplaces that pride with the idea that it does not need to change to help over half of its people. We are not a perfect union, but with his help and support, it can be a more perfect union.

In his defense, some minority leaders use a whining approach to gain media presence and power. Looking at you Jesse Jackson. Farking ambulance chaser.

@Durandal -- Remember the B.O.B.s? *8)

This is really interesting, they (the Mccain campaign) really are trying for the Hillary/obama vote. She mentioned HIllary and Geraldine in two speechs so far, she also used almost word for word the Obama lines about change and reform in washington. They are basically trying to be Obamas campaign. Essentially copying their talking points. How can they make fun of Obama for wanting change and basically she is giving a version of Obama and Hillary's speeches.

Anyway, should be fun and what are there right wing websites saying?

OK here are some video interviews of her, she seems (sorry all) pretty good. Welll spoken etc. McCain may have made a good choice in some ways.

I wonder if the republicans actually like her?

Coffee, at least one cup for each link. Excuse me, I need a short break here.

SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP? You have GOT to be kidding me.

Not at all. What is a special interest group? A group that is primarily, often singularly, concerned with some 'special interest' - hence the term. That is the perfect description of feminist and pro-black groups, who are specifically interested in the issues that affect their groups. Other such examples include the labor unions and AARP.

Being against such entirely self-motivated special interests does not mean you are against what they pretend to stand for. For example, I don't hate old people. I hate the AARP. Generally, however, special interest groups overstate problems and want a disproportionate amount of resources devoted to their pet causes.

Specific to your argument, the whole 'women make less money than men' thing is not as cut-and-dried as you frame it. There are many mitigating factors that make it a much more complex issue. Everything is complicated, and raving lunatic special interest groups try to make us think it's simple so they can enact laws to protect or uniquely benefit their members.

Does McCain think women vote with their vaginas?

Funny, the Democrats were saying exactly that just recently. Wasn't the big deal that Hillary supporters would never come back to the party?

And on that note, the VP is basically an empty suit position, unless of course

... it's Biden, in which case you're too busy having an orgasm to think such things.

But to be fair yes, it is an empty suit position. I'd prefer the "old days" way of giving the job to the losing candidate. Not sure it would work, but the idea of having bipartisan input is a nice one.

What he IS however is appropriately proud of America, but misplaces that pride with the idea that it does not need to change

In the midst of all your smug, ignorant rhetoric you did get two things right.

  • I am proud of America.
  • America doesn't need "change".

America, at heart, is fine. What America needs is someone to fix problems within the systems we have in place.

We do not need some self-appointed messiah acting as a sweeping agent of change to redraft our nation. That kind of talk only convinces evangelicals and scares away rational people. So please, keep talking like that.

And keep calling everyone who might vote differently from you 'stupid', and keep calling people with the gall to have religious beliefs 'Jesus freaks', and keep calling decorated war heroes 'retards'. Seriously, it's working out great for everyone - we win, and you get to do what you really love do to: grumble for four more years about how unfair life is.

McCain '08.

How can you justify your restraint in slamming the Clintons, Kennedys, Marion Barrys and other philandering, chauvinistic left-wingers of the world?' Palin wrote at the time.

During a Newsweek Women & Leadership Event in Los Angeles last March, Sarah Palin said this about Hillary Clinton:

I say this with all due respect to Hillary Clinton…but when I hear a statement like that coming from a woman candidate with any kind of perceived whine about that excess criticism or you know maybe a sharper microscope put on her, I think you know that doesn’t do us any good – women in politics, women in general wanting to progress this country.

Dayte mnye dva kopeck pozhawlsta,

"Very clever pick by McCain/Rove. Now we're going to see just how stupid the American public is. I think they will go for an old white man and a pretty what? woman."

Exactly, we collectively are about to take a National I.Q. test. And flunk, according to Billy Bryant, Jilly, I mean.

"mentioning gay rights and abortion" shuts down the brains of those with...already shut down syndrome in the first place.

I submit that the Republicans are running as democrats (sort of) instead of democrats running as Republicans for the first time since, the... 50's, Ikewise, the early eighties congress-wise.

Callicrap gets paid for what he does. I think. Maybe. Most likely.

Dick Cheney pulled an April Glaspie in (Eurasian) Georgia. By George, Putin put in his dva kopecks in on this, and.... he is one of the world's leading experts on skullduggery, he know his sh!t.

.

Very clever , the well-tempted cleVER...

.

Cleverer and clevererer,err,

...perhaps sesquicleverer by half all over again, only NOT de-"ja!"-voodoo THIS time around. I bet Jilly/Billy's got it all wrong. My gut tells me Palin-drone is a backwardsdrawbakc BAKCFIRE "shot" seen for what she is 'round the (non-flat) earth.

I'll jet you dva ckopekc.

"any kind of perceived whine"

A blowboy virtuoso, maybe?

Palin is such an unknown - but it is brilliant, brilliant strategy.

How can it be "brilliant" if she is such an unknown? Perhaps, politically, for all the obvious reasons, it is brilliant in the short term, or at least bold. In the long-term as well as policy and governing terms, it is recklessly irresponsible. No, it is worse than irresponsible, it is ridiculous: if the best sound bite against Obama was that he allegedly didn't have any "experience" that argument is now gone. What else remains as central issues in this campaign: Iraq, the economy, energy. As Palin opposed wind, clean coal, and other alternative energy measures, I would love to her explain what, in detail, her views are on these and other issues, but I suspect it's a lot like McCain's "let's do all of the above and don't ask about details" policy. She also seems to think that domestic drilling will give American's their own "energy supply," apparently not realizing all oil, whatever it's provenance, including that drilled on U.S. territory, is distributed across a global market. It is there that prices are set, and that is why where oil comes from does not directly affect price. As for ridding Washington of 'corruption,' she's under investigation herself right now. Did they vet this woman at all?

Her remarks on Hillary and the "perceived whine" are hilarious Hillary, apparently, just needed to 'work a little harder' and 'get over ' sexism. Yeah, right: the toughest, smartest, hardest working, most viable female presidential candidate in the history of U.S. politics just didn't work hard enough--tell it to PUMA. If only Hillary could have had the advice of this small fry on how to 'suck it up and keep fighting'.

To compare her level of inexperience with Obama's is absurd. Obama ran and expertly managed a tough national campaign against the most powerful family in the Democratic party and came out just barely on top, in the process explaining in detail his well-thought out views on Pakistan, Iraq, loose nuclear materials, the intricacies of health and energy policy, the economy, and the current tax code. This women doesn't even seem to understand how global markets work.

The more I think about this McCain pick, the more I love it. Observe: This is what "from the gut" decision making looks like when Karl Rove isn't around to clean up the shitty mess you've made of yourself.

Philosopher's Tone - Once more through the looking glass. I don't think calligraph gets paid. As a non-self interested Republican, I think he just enjoys the attention. As Robinson said, be nice to the old guy so I am going to try.
(BTW - I usually can follow your stream of consciousness allusions but why Billy?)

k - She is for Big Oil (as most of Alaska is - and her husband works for BP), against abortion, and big into religion - what do you think the Republicans think of her? Yes, I do think she is a very good choice for them....now you're trying to flip me out again. I know expecting people to look at the issues (and understand them) is too much so we're back to the superficial. She certainly is going to soften the strangely-repellent McCains....

Oh sweet jeebus, this is frigging brilliant. i almost peed on myself when i heard that McCain has chosen Palin! Palin! Imagine the debate between Biden and Palin. Michael is gonna eviscerate poor old Joe!

Joe Biden enters the TV studio, carrying a cage.

Biden: Hello, I wish to register a complaint… Hello, Miss?!…

Palin: What do you mean "Miss"?

Biden: I'm sorry, I am a democrat. I wish to make a complaint!

Palin: We're closing for a fund-raising lunch.

Biden: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this candidate that I purchased not half an hour ago from this very station.

Palin: Oh yes, the, uh, the McCain Red… what's, uh… what's wrong with him?

Biden: I'll tell you what's wrong with him, my lad. He's dead, that's what's wrong with him!

Palin: No, no, he's, uh… he's resting.

Biden: Look, sweetie, I know a dead candidate when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

Palin: No no, he's not dead—he's, he's resting! Remarkable man, the McCain Red, isn't he, ay? Beautiful plumage!

Biden: The plumage don't enter into it. He's stone dead.

Palin: No no no no no, no! He's resting!

Biden: All right then, if he's resting, I'll wake him up! (Shouting at the cage) Hello, Mister Candidate! I've got a lovely fresh contribution for you if you show…

(Palin hits the cage.) Palin: There, he moved!

Biden: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage!

Palin: I never!

Biden: Yes, you did!

Palin: I never, never did anything…

Biden: (Yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) HELLO CANDIDATE!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! THIS IS YOUR 3 AM ALARM CALL! (Takes candidate out of the cage and thumps his head on the counter. Throws him up in the air and watches him plummet to the floor.) Now that's what I call a DEAD candidate.

Palin: No, no… No, he's stunned!

Biden: STUNNED?!?

Palin: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was waking up! McCain Red stuns easily, major.

Biden: Um… now look… now look, mate, I've definitely had enough of this. That candidate is definitely deceased, and when I purchased him not half an hour ago, you assured me that his total lack of movement was due to him being tired and shagged out following a prolonged speech.

Palin: Well, he's… he's, ah… probably pining for the bushes.

Biden: Pining for the BUSHES?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that? Look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got him home?

Palin: The McCain Red prefers keeping on his back! Remarkable man, isn't he, squire? Lovely plumage!

Biden: Look, I took the liberty of examining that candidate when I got him home, and I discovered the only reason that he had been sitting on his perch in the first place was that he had been NAILED there.

(Pause) Palin: Well, of course he was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that candidate down, he would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent them apart with his beak, and… POW! Feeweeweewee!

Biden: "POW"?!? Mate, this candidate wouldn't "POW" anymore if you sent him to Guantanamo and put four million volts through him! He's bleeding demised!

Palin: No no! He's pining!

Biden: He's not pining! He's passed on! This candidate is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet His maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the perch, he'd be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the donors bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible! THIS IS AN EX-CANDIDATE!

(pause) Palin: Well, I'd better replace him then. (He takes a quick peek in the wings:) Sorry squire, I've had a look around the back of the lot, and uh, we're right out of candidates.

Biden: I see, I see, I get the picture.

Palin: …I got a Republican Slug.

(Pause) Biden: Does he talk?

Palin: No very well, but he prays a lot.

Biden: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!

Palin: N-no, I guess not. (Gets ashamed, looks at his feet.)

Biden: Well…

(Pause)

Palin: (Quietly) Do you… do you want to come back to my place?

Biden: (Looks around) Yeah, all right, sure… I thought you'd never ask.

Errr, what do you mean, SARAH?

Anyway, should be fun and what are there right wing websites saying?

Andrew Sullivan is keeping track of some of these.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/ (It goes on ALL day on his site, tracking almost every twitch and spams of glee and buyer's remorse across the blogosphere).

So far as I can tell, the reaction is pretty mixed. This, and this are interesting.

jpaul -

Loved it - destined to become an OGM classic! The dead parrot sketch is outstanding – I laughed hardest when I pictured McCain looking like he did in the 'three stooges' get-up Norm posted months ago - getting his head thumped on the counter and tossed in the air.

I still think it's a smart political choice for McCain (for reasons I stated above), and I expect that Palin will appeal to a wider range of non-Internet-oriented voters than many of us want to believe.

However, I do want to thank Adam for his frequent enlightening and thought provoking posts here. I share his view that this choice shows a great deal of contempt for Obama by the McCain campaign.

Here is an interesting comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7niokOXyjs

kinda rambles around doesn't it? Here's another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7niokOXyjs

oops - the first link should have been this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII

As many other women have said, "voting for women is not about voting for their anatomy". Hillary got women's support for he stances on Female issues. Equal pay, pro-choice (most women are) etc.

Why in the world would mccain pick a woman who is currently under investigation for ethical reasons? Why would he pick a woman who spent $1.7 million on land for a sports complex that was originally worth $125,000.

I really think Jindal and every other raising conservative star turned down the ticket because he sees he has a political future, and didn't want to tie himself to McCain's sinking ship's mast.

However, can anyone with a straight face say this woman would have been picked if she were a man with the same qualifications?

I believe the answer is a resounding.. FUCK no.

Something the media is all stupid about... "Change" does not mean "inexperienced and new". She is not a change candidate. She's the same.

This is bat shit insane, and misguided, and totally confused on what america is saying. It's so tone deaf in it's execution, you wonder if mccain is losing his hearing too.

oops - the first link should have been this one

Tim, you are hilarious, and that second link is kinda evil! Did you know she was a 'brigader for Pat Buchanan? The Jewish voters in FL should love that.

uubuntu--what does your name mean?--thanks. I think that a lot of your argument above is a sobering consideration. Many of us here come from a news/political-junkie, slightly egg-headish perspective, and you are right to remind us that a lot of others don't. My one reservation is this--it is obvious that McCain has decided to run a personality and 'change' campaign. I wonder whether, with home foreclosures, high gas prices, and crunched budgets, anyone but the converted will buy any of that from a Republican who 'has voted with Bush 90% of the time'? My hunch, based on the VP news conference which began by lifting lines and themes from Obama's speech last night, and then later, from Clinton herself, is that the McCain campaign is incredibly desperate. The VP choice took the media attention off Obama, but in 2-3 weeks when the media buzz dies down, and the brutal, gritty work of campaigning begins, McCain will be worse off than before, and can hardly ask for the confidence of working class voters on the basis of being the "experience" ticket, the supposed lack of which is, I suspect, what some of them distrusted about Obama. I could be wildly wrong, but after watching Democrats try to run as 'Bush-lite' in the last election, it is at least immensely satisfying to watch Republicans pretend to distance themselves from their own party's corruption and run as "Obama-lite"--we're for change too, just not as much!

JoAnn--delighted to hear your voice here and your always informative links--given your often perspicuous pessimism, do you still feel we're condemned to a McCain presidency?

I always found it odd that McCain would constantly bring up the “bridge to nowhere” on his stump speeches. Whenever he did I always thought that was one of the many reasons to vote the GOP out. But now, his VP pick, in her first speech in the national spotlight, has out and out lied about her position. She now claims to have always fought against the “bridge to nowhere”. But, as Rachel Maddow pointed out on Countdown tonight, Palin told the Anchorage Daily News on October 22, 2006, during the race for the governor's seat (via Nexis):

Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

"Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist".

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/29/did-palin-really-fight-the-bridge-to-nowhere.aspx

So, she wanted to get it done before the Democrats 2006 win and she wanted to get it done with earmarks. Nice “change-agent” pick there McCain! This is goofy pick by a senile, horny jackass.

Any Hillary supporter who would jump to this ticket now to side with Palin; a pro life, pro gun, ANWAR drilling, moose eating, polar bear hating, global warming denying, Pat Buchanan acolyte better just take out a knife now and cut off your nose.

It seems we are all a product of what we read, or where we get our news. I have asked this before but I would like to ask anyone who thinks the Republicans are doing a good job a simple question: What do you feel is a reliable news source? An easy question but I can never seem to get an answer from conservatives.

It seems obvious that Rush Limbaug rates highly with our resident breast-beater, super-Christian (“the gall to have religious beliefs?” I don't even know what the hell that means), and McCain supporter. What journalists help you form your political opinions? I'll start by naming the places I turn to for information:

The New York Times
The New Yorker
The Washington Post
Harper's
The Atlantic Monthly (not so much these days)
El País (Madrid)
Le Figaro (Paris)
The Guardian
(I would probably add The Daily Show, not for the information but for their take on how the news is played at the major networks)

Over the course of my adult life these news sources have helped me to shape my own views which have a decidedly liberal slant. Am I liberal because I read these publications of do I read these publications because I am a liberal? If there is a reliable conservative source of news I am not aware of it.

OK i cannot believe I am quoting David Frum, whom by the way i just cannot understand how a nice Canadian boy with what appeared to be the most amazing mother (his mother was a canadian beloved icon) became such an ass for the conservative right, but look what he says.

ECHOES OF HARRIET David Frum: "It's a wild gamble, undertaken by our oldest ever first-time candidate for president in hopes of changing the board of this election campaign. Maybe it will work. But maybe (and at least as likely) it will reinforce a theme that I'd be pounding home if I were the Obama campaign: that it's John McCain for all his white hair who represents the risky choice, while it is Barack Obama who offers cautious, steady, predictable governance."

This should be the message, McCain impulsively hires someone for the most important job in the country (president) he has met only once, has a looming investigation on ethics that is ongoing, while Obama undertakes a careful vetting process with advisors etc.

Not to attack her qualifications attack McCains character and judgement. If he really has only met her once (if that is really true) we really should question his judgement. I also think the temperament issue is a realistic question, Obama really does not appear to have a temperament issue, but there have been concerns from republicans about McCains temperament.

and also from David Frum http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2VhOWE0N2VkOWI3MDdlODRlZWE4ODljMDc2NjliZDk=

From today's NYT:

This month, a bipartisan panel of state legislators appointed an independent investigator to look into whether Ms. Palin had fired a top law enforcement official in her administration because he had failed to dismiss a state trooper who was involved in a divorce with Ms. Palin’s sister.

So much for her squeaky-clean Christian character.

Pardon me for stating the obvious, but McCain's choosing Governor Palin is a stupid choice if Republicans think this will sway Hillary Clinton supporters to McCain simply because Palin is a female.

Say what you want about a vast majority of Hillary supporters, but what they are not are right-wing dolts and morons. And their refusal to fully support Obama the last few months was not based on the same reasons right-wing dolts like "Calligraph" hate Obama.

The Obama-Hillary fissure has not divided the Democratic party between the smart and stupid, or between right-wing and left-wing factions within the party. It is more of a split between intelligent progressives on both sides of the Obama-Hillary divide who share common views on the core political values held by the party, but disagree on who should be leading the party right now. Many Hillary supporters simply think Obama cut in line to usurp what was Hillary's rightful place at the top of this presidential ticket.

You really think this Palin dope is going to sway Hillary supporters, who are, for the most part, the most intelligent and progressive voters we have in this country?

Palin supports the teaching of intelligent design in public schools, for heaven's sake. I seriously doubt that sits well with Hillary Clinton supporters. Palin also supports a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. You think Hillary supporters would get excited about that? Hardly. Palin is a religious fundamentalist and a homophobe who opposes abortion vehemently. That accounts for what, about ZERO of Hillary's support base.

Palin seems to be a charming and likable woman, but that doesn't make her a feminist. She's a paleo-conservative and religious fundamentalist, two movements not known for having much love for feminism.

I imagine if supporters for Hillary Clinton were shallow dopes, religious fanatics, and vicious anti-intellectuals, then, sure, they would certainly rally behind McCain and his female running mate.

One of the main reasons Hillary supporters will vote for Obama is because if McCain is elected, the Supreme Court will be turned into the tool of the right-wing religious fundamentalists. Cooler heads will prevail by November 5th simply because of this rather ugly truth.

PUMA: Perhaps you missed this one mat ;)

Gay Marraige: Forget about this one?

Creationism: Original Article. You're assesment is only partly true(as usual).

Seriously, Syngas, if you are going to try to dunk over me, first you have to learn how to jump, second you have to learn how to play basketball, and third you have be able to dunk over ME.

None of your three "cases" prove anything.

Case 1 - is a funny sketch and obviously your wink indicate you are joking here.

Case 2 - That act was passed by a Republican-controlled congress and was signed by BILL Clinton. If you think 18 million Hillary Clinton supporters support that legislation, please cite substantive numbers. If not, I don't get your point.

Case 3 - She still believes in Creationism. Am I partly wrong about that? Sorry, but stupid is as stupid does.

Funny sketch indeed, but those were not actors he was talking to.

That act passed the senate with a very bi-partisan vote. (I know it's Wiki, but I checked, and it's correct).

You are probably right about not attracting the eugenics faction of the Hillary base, but some is better than none.

What you haven't proven is how many Hillary Clinton supporters:

a) Believe creationism is an "alternate scientific theory" that should be deiscussed in school science classes;

b) Oppose the right to choose on a woman's reproductive rights;

c) Support the constitutional banning of gay marriage;

I am sure there are Hillary supports who favor either a, b, c...maybe one of the three, or two of the three even.

But I wonder how many favor all three exclusively?

Quick, Syngas, start googling your little butt off on this and find out if you want.

I would bet more Hillary supporters favor none of the three than support one, two or all three. I am not saying I have the proof of this, but I would reasonably guess more Obama AND Hillary Clinton supporters would disagree with any and all of a, b, & c than supporters of John McCain.

We could argue endlessly about the moral implications of the three issues; politically, the reality is more or less what I stated above and so far you've offered nothing to change or dispute that.

The closer we reach November 5, the more I am confident Hillary supporters will vote en masse for Obama.

We don't need all of them mat. With how close this election is looking so far, a few will probably do.

Even if the rest don't vote for McCain, they may view this as either voting for a misogynist or an anti-choice candidate and decide to stay home.

The anti-modernity platform advocated by McCain-Palin is probably not that appealing to Hillary supporters no matter how much they hate Obama. But like I said, come November 5 when they realize their apathy might lead to electing another Republican who will appoint more conservative justices to the Supreme Court, they'll vote for Obama while they hold their noses. I have been confounded by how nutty some of the extreme Obama-hating Democrats have sounded recently, but if they really support the core values Hillary has been espousing all these years, they'd be insane to not vote at all.

You've gone from:

'Pardon me for stating the obvious, but McCain's choosing Governor Palin is a stupid choice if Republicans think this will sway Hillary Clinton supporters to McCain simply because Palin is a female.'

to:

'McCain-Palin is probably not that appealing to Hillary supporters'

Not a total reversal, but coming from you, it may as well be ;)

Wow, and you call me a liar full of logical fallacies.

You didn't even quote me correctly.

It calls into question all of your "fact" gathering skills. How much else do you get wrong?

Hmm. I wonder.

This is an interesting Hillary supporters' site: http://smartwomenforhillary.com/

Also watched the Samantha Bee take on voting for Palin. Let's hope all the Hillary supporters see it...

responding or responding through intermediaries that nothing is harder then raising five kids, one of whom has down syndrome - that to me is even more laughable. Not that it will stop pundits from treating it like a serious talking point and legitimizing it.

Did this down syndrome child have a nuclear weapon or a 100 billion dollar budget?

I will accept that Obama has limited experience, Any Change candidate inevitably will have limited experience.

That said, He has studied law, taught law, been a local advocate in addition to being a state senator to a district that I am sure holds more then 9,000 voters and A Senator to a state that has 12,831,970 which is 20 times the 670,000 in Alaska. 670,000 people that pay no state income tax due to the high revenues from oil companies and huge amounts of federal dollars spent there.

The comparison is sad and funny all at the same time.

Plus, Illinois is Contiguous and don't allow Moose in their downtowns.

Hi Adam!

No, I am not feeling so pessimist anymore. McCain's choice of Palin was so ridiculous that I feel much more optimistic. Also when I saw Obama finally get tough on McCain on Thursday night, that was comforting.

Palin's extreme views on abortion (even against it in cases of rape), her backward view that she feels creationism should be taught along side evolution don't bode well.

Also the following quote from her will make people feel nervous:

I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq.

She may be good as an executive for state government, but she could very possibly end up being the next president of the U.S. given McCain's age and health.

Also, the most recent Gallup Poll has Obama at 49% and McCain at 41%.

Also, in the battleground states of Colorado and New Mexico, John McCain opened up a can of worms

John McCain proved to be a uniter not a divider with his suggestion that the 1922 Colorado River compact be renegotiated to allocate more water to his home state of Arizona as well as Nevada and California.

McCain’s comments in an interview with Charles Ashby of the Pueblo Chieftain united practically every political figure in Colorado, regardless of party, to denounce the GOP presidential candidate’s proposal.

"Over my dead body," snapped Colorado Democratic Sen. Ken Salazar.

"Over my cold, dead, political carcass," echoed Republican U.S. Senate candidate Bob Schaffer.

"On this issue, McCain couldn’t be more wrong," Democratic Senate candidate Mark Udall said…

Also, the most recent Gallup Poll has Obama at 49% and McCain at 41%.

That number is from a three day average including two days before his Thursday night speech.

So look for better numbers next week, and if Bush actually speaks, even better numbers by middle of next week and if palin is as week as she looks even better number soon after that.

True RedSeven. Even more good news.

As for Palin fighting the Bridge to NoWhere, well, not exactly

She made a big deal about opposing earmarks for the Bridge to Nowehere, when in fact she initially supported this earmark until it was clear to her that this particular earmark had become so controversial that there was no point in budgeting for it.

McCain's choice of Palin was so ridiculous that I feel much more optimistic. Also when I saw Obama finally get tough on McCain on Thursday night, that was comforting.

Delighted to hear it!

Also, the most recent Gallup Poll has Obama at 49% and McCain at 41%.

Your links, as always, are informative and appreciated. As you surely know, we haven't seen the bump from the speech yet and the Palin pick. We'll see what figures look like in another week or two. At the moment, it appears 40 million tuned into Obama's speech. Digby, who strikes me is terrifically smart, is voicing a more cautious attitude on the ultimate effects of the Palin pick. We shall see.

As for 'troopergate,' there's already a tape on the web of someone calling from her office to coerce the Wooten firing (start at the 7 minute mark, which hits the key line at 9 minutes). It is extraordinary how in one 24 hours news cycle how much has been drummed up from all over the web. What a strange world we live in.

It is extraordinary how in one 24 hours news cycle how much has been drummed up from all over the web

Right Adam. And we have two more months to go. This was the major problem in choosing such an unknown candidate. I was shocked (and delighted) that McCain made such an irresponsible choice for VP.

Thank you Adam. You have been continuing with the good arguments and well-documented links while I've been pouting. Thanks to you and RedSeven and Jill Bryant and others who never lost hope and who never lost that fighting spirit.

I don't know if you guys have seen this yet, but it's the first ad Obama has put out sense McCain's VP pick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV_uryFRPjY

This was the major problem in choosing such an unknown candidate. I was shocked (and delighted) that McCain made such an irresponsible choice for VP.

Yeah know, it just struck me that McCain doesn't know how to use the internet! Maybe he thought we'd find out about all this stuff by telegram or mail sled or express horse buggy from Alaska a few months after the November election is past? Oh this new-fangled internet stuff!

You have been continuing with the good arguments and well-documented links while I've been pouting.

After the last 8 years, I think a cautionary voice is always welcome (especially from someone who backs up their worries with evidence).

So far, team Obama is playing the Palin thing about right - their first post-Palin ad goes after the person they should go after - John McCain.

The Anchorage Daily News interview is enlightening. Despite my jokey clips above, she comes off well considering that she is defending herself in a compromising scandal. She isn't stupid, she's likable even - as usual, Digby's take is very good. People who are worried about Joe Biden having to handle her carefully are right to only a small extent - he just has to avoid looking patronizing or petty. Otherwise, he just has to beat her with his vastly superior knowledge of almost everything about government and the world. However, I think liberals who are hoping for Geraldine Quayle will be disappointed - she has at least 20 IQ points on Quayle, i.e., she's at least average.

The main campaign job of the VP is to rip into the other party's presidential candidate. Now that McCain-Palin have sacrificed the experience issue, the only people I would imagine who will find Palin-led attacks on Obama convincing are already solidly for McCain. She'll have to be an absolutely outstanding campaigner to really take any disgruntled Hillary supporters away from Obama. Why would anyone support Hillary in the first place, if they found Palin's politics to be palatable? Biden will do as much or more damage to McCain than Palin can do to Obama.

Karl Rove on the subject of picking a VP:

"I think he's going to make an intensely political choice, not a governing choice. He's going to view this through the prism of a candidate, not through the prism of president; that is to say, he's going to pick somebody that he thinks will on the margin help him in a state like Indiana or Missouri or Virginia. He's not going to be thinking big and broad about the responsibilities of president."

Of course, he was talking about Obama...but that's not surprising. The Republican party has made a phantasmagoric, perverted artform out of the habit of projecting its flaws upon its opponents.

To be sure, foolishness and gullibility know no political boundaries. But the Republican leadership intentionally exploits these qualities. Indeed, it actively fosters them.

Shameless hypocrisy directed at mentally impoverished dupes is the secret of the GOP's success.

And let me just add:

In the permanent campaign atmosphere, it's all about who wins, not who's right. The GOP is perfectly happy to turn a community garden (the USA as conceived by its founders) into a dungheap (by undermining its principles), as long as they're sitting on top when all's said & done.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but everyone here at onegoodmove should(if your not already) go and volunteer to help Barack Obama out in these last two months of the campaign! I know we all have other important things to be doing, but there are only two months left of battling in this very tight election, and these next two months will decide the next four years! Every bit of help counts people! :)

Go to www.barackobama.com and they will give you all the information you need!

Hey, anyone who listened to candidate G W Bush talk about foreign policy in the Bush-Gore debates knew already that the GOP doesn't give a flying fuck who they elect. That's why it is weird to see people like Kevin Drum now criticizing Palin - the guy wrote speeches for a house plant.

politicjunky

I agree with what the Obama staffer posted :)

Folks should donate too.

"I agree with what the Obama staffer posted :)"

well I wouldn't call my self a staffer. I am a fulltime animator who just started voluntering on the weekends and donating what money I can afford this past two weeks. :)

Here's more on that lovely Christian woman, Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin giggles after a radio host, Lester, refers to her colleage, and cancer survivor, Senator Lyda Green, as a "bitch" and a "cancer".

wow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkydrUnBZE

Lester questioned Green's motherhood, asking Palin if the senator cares about her own kids. Palin laughs

Then Lester clearly sets the stage for what he is about to say by warning his large audience and Palin. He says, "Governor you can't say this but I will, Lyda Green is a cancer and a bitch." Palin laughs for the second time.

Oh, but, not a problem..

The Palin camp says the governor did call Green and apologize

wow

But there's strong evidence Palin did condone Lester's name-calling. At the end of Lester making fun of Green as a mother, calling her a cancer, twice, and saying she has to go; after calling the senator a b----, making fun of her weight, and accusing Green of being jealous and hateful; after all of that, Lester ends the conversation offering to visit Palin.

How does Palin respond? "I'd be honored to have you."

The statement released by the governor's office also called Palin's action bad judgment.

But bad judgment is when you stay up late the night before a big test, order steak at a Chinese restaurant or wear blue jeans to a black tie affair.

What the governor did was wrong.

Not only did she sit by and watch a decent public servant get thrashed in front of tens of thousands of people, she actually enjoyed it.

This is our governor, for goodness sake.

Our leader. I wonder.

Dude, this is getting so ridiculous it needs a name of it's own. Politically Palin-ful: the elevation to candidacy for high-office of an inexperienced hack whose central claim to authority and political relevance--in this instance, having the integrity to 'clean up Washington' (having never been there before)--is debunked in less than one new-cycle as supported by a thin-raft of lies.

I feel sorry for this woman--she is in way over her head, and what she did to what appears to be a scum bag of a brother in law may even understandable, even if illegal. But what on earth was the McCain campaign thinking? And again: Did they vet this woman at all?

I am a fulltime animator who just started voluntering on the weekends and donating what money I can afford this past two weeks. :)

Donation certainly. What kind of time commitment does weekend work entail? (I know that sounds cheap, but my weeks will be like 90 hours starting next week--getting the excessive posting and internet junkism out of my system this last long weekend).

Also notice that Sarah Palin laughs when the radio talk show host makes a joke about Lyda Green being fat.

wow

"What kind of time commitment does weekend work entail?"

If you go to his web-site, they can point you to close locations to where you live, and what they need most are people with their own cell-phones to come in on the weekend and help call people in battle-ground states. Anytime you can offer they will take you up on, remember you are volunteering, so anytime(no matter how small) you can give them will be greatly appreciated.

OK political junky, the Sarah Palin thing has done it, with all that feel good koolaid from watching the convention.

I have just donated the maximum to Obama, I did not know you cannot get a tax rebate, in Canada you can. I also did not know you have to be a citizen.

Anyway, does this mean that everyone can look me up on websites and find out where i live, and who i voted for? I just don't like that, I mean what if someone does not hire you for a job due to your donations?

Hi k, that question is WAAAAAY over my head! I am just someone like you. I do not know that answer to that, but I truly doubt there will be a negative backlash to donating to his campaign. That is great that you donated the maximum though!! I was only able to donate a couple hundred so far myself, but I figure it's better than doing nothing and watching the republicans swipe yet another election form under our feet. I think if we all bust our tails these next two months we can actually win this thing!! But we have to WORK for it! :)

McCain is dead.

My first Blink reaction was McCain just lost, lost it, it being his mind, his wife('s loyalty) maybe, the election, any lingering doubt about 2nd adolescence senility syndrome.

The comments, links, wiki wake ups, etc. confirm my Gestaltblick. Jilly is silly...

We won!

That being said, she's a cool lady (not nervous, way too not nervous, too not about a thing, detached from reality non-chalant), a not humdrum predictable pick, excitement amidst faux passion, Palin's married to a Johnny come lately but not as as the rest of ye all (Esquimeaux) manual worker, she's kind of a Biden counterpart/point, a Female Mensch (Wensch?)

I still think/blink his fate is sealed. McCain is Hillary, I mean History.

I don't mean presidential history. I mean historical curiosity/footnote history.

Yeyyyy! But work, Arbeit macht das Leben süß.

Sweet.

Also notice that Sarah Palin laughs when the radio talk show host makes a joke about Lyda Green being fat. It was conduct unbecoming a human being, never mind a governor.

Yeah, I think we posted at about the same time, so I didn't see your most recent remarks until just now. But, in case it matters: Her being a creationist--that I can excuse on personal, not political, grounds as just ignorance, and I bought the 'hockey mom' bit. But laughing at a cancer surviver--especially to anyone who has ever lost someone to it--that is seriously not funny, and hearing her get a rise out of it is disgusting. 'Does she like her kids? hee hee hee' W. T. F.

All that said, I never claimed to deny enjoying all the Palin-ful-ness this decision will cause McCain. Since he obviously like running ads about Obama being a 'celebrity', or insinuating he's a muslim, or pointing out that he's black, well, then revealing the truth, rather than just smear, about his own reckless pick is fair game, in my view. What I am especially grateful for is that the Obama campaign is not touching the scandal stuff. The newsmedia, with it's love of drama, is doing it all on its surprisingly responsible own!

k. & politicaljunky: you guys are awesome. Since I can't donate the maximum amount--although I will send some--I am eager to volunteer. All I needed was the reassurance of flexibility with hours.

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