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Freedom of Religion

Atheist sues (tip to Tony and Tim)




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It's OK Jeremy, my faith in the rule of law seems to be getting undermined on a pretty consistent basis as well these days.

As per usual, the very people who claim to support our soldiers are the very first to make their lives impossible and dishonor their sacrifices. Discrimination, fine, but in a war zone? Not surprising, but scary as hell, especially that psycho shit about raising a spiritual army with 'biblical leadership' (in preparation, no doubt, for the Final Battle of the End Times). It's sad, really, because usually putting it those terms, with big capital letters on 'Final Battle' and 'End Times' to emphasize their Spiritual Seriousness, would have given me a tincture of amusement at their narrow-minded stupidity. Now it's just scary, because these lunatics have real influence.

But beware liberals looking for an in--this is simply another red state thang, you gotta understand. Backwoods wiccans, antebellum a-theists--yer gonna get stuck if you touch that tar...

"the gov't has until midnight tonight to respond". damn, how did his lawyers pull that off? i want their names!

regarding jeremy's "beliefs": when asked if believing in god makes you a better soldier ,he answers "i think being a soldier makes you a better soldier".does he mean it makes you better than another soldier, who is also a soldier...i don't get it. oh, he means soldiering experience makes you a better soldier. yossarian, where are you when we need you?

for sure i back the "kid" in his suit against the army, but what is all this stuff about respecting soldiers' "sacrifices", anyway? with an all volunteer army, what is the nature of these "sacrifices"? why should he be more deserving of respect than a construction worker, who could die in a work accident at any time? or even a crack dealer, the hazards of which occupation are known to all? it seems to me they're just as likely to be making their "sacrifice" for the good of others, if that is indeed the issue.

just trollin' :)

"Pentacostalgon"?

groan

This just reminded me at how bad CNN is at "reporting". Ask the athiest if beliving in god would make you a better soldier, what kind of answer do you expect? "Oh, certainly, belief in the flying spaghetti monster helps me know where to point my gun!" And going straight to the Pentagon and asking if they support religious discrimination. Again, what answer do you expect?

No wonder all of these 24 news stations have "i-report" and "submit your own stories", the reporting can't get any worse.

You MUST obey THE Lord. You know, the one that answers your prayers, keeps you and your comrades safe in battle. The one who assures the praying side on the football team a victory. The one who........... Never mind.

You MUST obey THE Lord. You know, the one that answers your prayers, keeps you and your comrades safe in battle. The one who assures the praying side on the football team a victory. The one who........... Never mind.

You MUST obey THE Lord. You know, the one that answers your prayers, keeps you and your comrades safe in battle. The one who assures the praying side on the football team a victory. The one who........... Never mind.

Worst interview ever.

Really, that's the most probing questioning CNN can toss at the Pentagon?

CNN: "Are you doing anything illegal or bad?" PENTAGON: "Hmm... nope!" CNN: "Good enough for me!"

I don't understand why Christians pray. They think God has this divine plan, and everything is mapped out for the future. What good does praying do if the divine plan can not be altered?

@ KevinR

Well, if you get a bike from grandma, you say "thanks," don't you? Why bother? She already bought if you and isn't going to change her mind now...

(Meh, best I could come up with.)

I don't understand why Christians pray. They think God has this divine plan, and everything is mapped out for the future. What good does praying do if the divine plan can not be altered?

I don't understand why Christians pray. They think God has this divine plan, and everything is mapped out for the future. What good does praying do if the divine plan can not be altered?

sorry for the triple post, there were some errors when I tried to submit it, and I wasn't sure if it posted.

KevinR: It's part of the plan that they pray!

This combined interview got to me as well. On the one hand, I'm glad they bothered to cover the topic, but on the other hand, they pressed no issues, never countering with ideas from the other side when interviewing the 3 men. C- journalism as noted above.

The army as christian coalition has been building since Bush I. The World Trade Center attacks opened the door wider. Even though the military is all about being one color (per service - green for army and marines, blue for air force, etc.) and officially allows for any religious preferenece, including atheist and "no rel pref" (no religious preference in ID tag speak), the general tenor of the gig is that you should be a god-fearing christian, because, as the movie purports, "there are no atheists in fox holes."

It's nice that someone would bother to counter this in the most public of ways. Good luck to him if he plans a military career. My guess is that once the Specialist's term is up, he'll be on his way.

Btw, KevinR - if there's an error message, go back to the page and refresh to see if your message posted. If you want to be sure that you don't lose what you typed, highlight and copy your comment before refreshing.

So, the fact that there's no documented evidence of any of his claims - not an issue for anyone?

Three interesting human behaviors revealed here: the willingness of people to believe, blindly, any accusation whose basis they assume to be true; the zealotry of the anti-religious in thinking that not believing means they never have to hear from, or tolerate, those who do; and, if there is any truth to his claims, the general ability of humans to globalize their immediate experience. Because he might have been picked on by some people for his beliefs, he believes it's a widespread epidemic. Who knows, he could be one of those FSM dickheads - like the moron with the 'Pentacostalgon' line - who can't shut up about their smug atheism and just tends to attract other zealots.

I know lots of people in the military, of many different beliefs, and I have heard about specific instances of 'belief clashing' but there is generally great respect for differences of opinion in personal beliefs. The military even employs religious leaders and 'sensitivity trainers' for the different types of myths and legends people grow up with.

The army as christian coalition has been building since Bush I.

Um, sure. Love all the proof you've provided. And by the way, wouldn't that mean ol' Slick Willy helped add to this? Funny, all I remember is him downsizing the military - except when he needed to bomb some innocent people to stop us talking about his affair.

except when he needed to bomb some innocent people to stop us talking about his affair.

Nothing takes the attention off a BJ better then dropping a smart bomb on a tractor.

Idiotic war.

*Can't call method "text" on unblessed reference at lib/MT/App/Comments.pm line 992. *

Norm, WTF is up with this error? Unblessed?

WTF

WTF indeed. Whenever the server gets too much of a load it times out before it finishes all the cleaning up it needs to do. The result errors such as the one above. I should probably get my own server and not share one, but the price where I am is excellent. Also the next release of movabletype is supposed to be twice as fast which should help with the problem. Any day now, ha ha.

The comments usually make it through in spite of the errors which is why you see so may double and triple postings.

But the question was about unblessed. I can only guess it's because I leave the server out of my evening prayers.

I don't understand why atheists use straw man arguments. They think reasoning has saved them from religion, and proof of their reasoning skills is their atheism. What good does the straw man do if he undermines the atheist's foundation?

Just playing Kevin ;-)

Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

With fallacy?

"i think being a soldier makes you a better soldier".

I take it that he means that the only thing that matters when assessing a soldier is how he performs in that specific capacity--not his religion, not his race, not anything that has nothing to do with the ordinary, everyday business of soldiering.

So, the fact that there's no documented evidence of any of his claims - not an issue for anyone?

You must have missed the part where they interviewed the lawyer who had received calls from "thousands of soldiers" with the same complaint. Lock solid proof? No, but that the problem did not concern just one individual and his claim, is a strong indication of truth. Just like when you have a criminal and a 1000 witnesses contradicting what he says, but no direct material evidence, your best bet is to go with the 1000 witnesses.

What would, in this instance, count as evidence for you? For me, the testimony of thousands is enough at least to motivate suspicion. I find your "documented evidence" demand simply incoherent, because discrimination is not usually documented by the person at fault, unless there are formal complaints. For instance, when a commander male officer sexually harasses a female subordinate, it's not like he draws up officially documentation to send to his superiors, "Harassed Suzie today. Stop. She may feel pressured enough to sleep with me soon. Stop. End Communication. Stop" The fact that the soldier had to be transferred because he feared for his life would be a good indicator of that, don't you think? Or do you want to see the transfer order?

the willingness of people to believe, blindly, any accusation whose basis they assume to be true;

You left out: the ability to willfully ignore evidence, and worshipfully believe whatever an authority tells you. As a Republican, you surely have a deep appreciation of that.

I can only guess it's because I leave the server out of my evening prayers.

Lol. I knew it! How utterly thoughtless of you!

The internet is the devil's work. When, oh when, Norm, will you learn that all we need to know is written in a magical book, written thousands of years ago by people who knew nothing about pretty much everything, and believed in genocide, slavery, and torture.

"people who knew nothing about pretty much everything, and believed in genocide, slavery, and torture."

I wonder what they'll be saying about us in a couple thousand years...

You left out: the ability to willfully ignore evidence, and worshipfully believe whatever an authority tells you. As a Republican, you surely have a deep appreciation of that.

Gee, where'd you get that he's a republican? Never would've thought so from all his posts.

He says he voted for Gore and Kerry. Link

So, the fact that there's no documented evidence of any of his claims - not an issue for anyone?

We'll let the courts decide that. They'll get to hear the case. Thank god CNN isn't the great arbitor of truth in the world.

With the religious discrimination many people have seen in the army already (not allowing Wiccan gravestones for dead soldiers because they could be "offensive", etc) we just have solid reason to believe this kids claims.

I wonder what they'll be saying about us in a couple thousand years...

I'm not terribly concerned, so long as they don't cling dogmatically to our mistakes. But given global warming, nuclear profileration, and much else, I find faintly more interesting: will we still be around?

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