It's tough to be disappointed by Obama when you've always expected him to be a generic centrist politician. Thus, why I was against both Obama and Clinton from the very beginning and why I couldn't understand so many of my radically liberal friends looking past Dodd and Edwards for the promise of "Change" being shelled out by Obama or Hillary. I know it's not as exciting to vote for another bland white guy, but it sure would have been smarter.

Oh well, he's still infinitely more exciting than McCain and much more liberal so I'll be happy to vote for Obama and continue to not be disappointed or surprised by his move back to the center. Though, I do enjoy my little cynical chuckles when Obama advocates fantasize about how he's just doing this for the general election and when in office he'll be a true liberal again! Yeah, and McCain is really a Maverick who is just pretending to be in lock-step with Bush for the general election too.

Yay! We're liberals! Lets piss and moan and never get anything done! Three cheers for cynicism!

Obama's a disappointment only if you're a sheep who thinks he's the messiah, but if you're a realist who's looking for the best available option, he remains heads and shoulders above the alternative. Being bitter and throwing your vote away is the best way to help McCain.

Come one, guys. Grow up.

I'd rather be disappointed than dead or impoverished, one of which fates will befall thousands more Americans if McCain gets in there.

And since it's Sunday, did anyone else notice Frank Rich's gaffe today? Wait till the townhall bloviators catch onto that one...damn lefty can't even get his cartoon character names right.

I'd rather be disappointed than dead or impoverished, one of which fates will befall thousands more Americans if McCain gets in there.

And since it's Sunday, did anyone else notice Frank Rich's gaffe today? Wait till the townhall bloviators catch onto that one...damn lefty can't even get his cartoon character names right.

I'd rather be disappointed than dead or impoverished, one of which fates will befall thousands more Americans if McCain gets in there.

And since it's Sunday, did anyone else notice Frank Rich's gaffe today? Wait till the townhall bloviators catch onto that one...damn lefty can't even get his cartoon character names right.

I'd rather be disappointed than dead or impoverished, one of which fates will befall thousands more Americans if McCain gets in there.

And since it's Sunday, did anyone else notice Frank Rich's gaffe today? Wait till the townhall bloviators catch onto that one...damn lefty can't even get his cartoon character names right.

I can't wait for the democrats to take the oval office so they can remind me why I equally hate both parties. Or all politicians for that matter.

Again, we all lose.

Amusing graphic. I, for one, look forward to being disappointed by Obama. I expect that disappointments in an Obama administration will be punctuated by great moments of success. This will be in stark contrast to the disastrous disappointments that have been delivered in an unbroken series by the current un-elected criminal gang that squats in our highest office. They have done only harm, and lots of it, and done not one small thing good.

After the white house is disinfected, and shamans and ghostbusters have purified the place, Obama will enter the oval office and complete a sentence in English.

He has my vote, and so far, 50 bucks of my non-corporate, independent hard earned citizen money.

As for "hope" - that's a stupid word, and a useless sentiment. It was dumb when it worked for Clinton, and it is dumb as it works for Obama now. Fear and hope are the same thing. McC@nt will play fear, Obama will play hope. Fools will follow one or the other. But there is no hope, and there is nothing to fear. Reality has no fear or hope in it. Death is the conclusion, so therefore, it is all moot, and we are safe. So, why not be creative, in the meantime, instead of a nation of frightened wussies? Fear, and hope, are for wussies. I'm voting for Obama because he is the infinitely less boring choice, and he does have the imagination and savvy to get this far, from way out of left field, against the wishes of the DLC. Yes, his is a new snake oil. Fresher and far less stale than the other brands on the shelf. I'll take it. Let's get him in office. It's a lousy job, but he wants the gig, and more than anyone else in decades, he has demonstrated that he has the right skill set and reptilian skin to handle it. If he weren't disappointing some of us, nay, all of us, part of the time, he would not be in the running, much less in the lead.

We will not see a president in the lifetimes of our great great grandchildren, who would not disappoint us some of the time. Try and elect the guy who doesn't disappoint all of the time. And welcome to democracy. Or is there a better idea on the table? Thanks.

And remember, the anti-choice, pro-mass murder, homophobic, misogynist bigot voters are organized and they are voting for McC@nt. So don't sleep on this, vote against those a-holes and defeat them. Or is this all just a fun little game? The world depends on us to oust the pro-war crime regime, so let's get it done. Once that's settled, we can apply pressure to the government, instead of letting the oil and gun lobbies etc. ad nauseum be the only voices bugging the new administration. Or will we just go home en masse in some fuzzy illusion that anything has actually changed? Remains to be seen. But we have to get the repuglican out, and control both houses. The right wing is depending on us to bicker at each other instead of taking care of the business at hand.

It's ours to lose. Let's win.

Amusing graphic. I, for one, look forward to being disappointed by Obama. I expect that disappointments in an Obama administration will be punctuated by great moments of success. This will be in stark contrast to the disastrous disappointments that have been delivered in an unbroken series by the current un-elected criminal gang that squats in our highest office. They have done only harm, and lots of it, and done not one small thing good.

After the white house is disinfected, and shamans and ghostbusters have purified the place, Obama will enter the oval office and complete a sentence in English.

He has my vote, and so far, 50 bucks of my non-corporate, independent hard earned citizen money.

As for "hope" - that's a stupid word, and a useless sentiment. It was dumb when it worked for Clinton, and it is dumb as it works for Obama now. Fear and hope are the same thing. McC@nt will play fear, Obama will play hope. Fools will follow one or the other. But there is no hope, and there is nothing to fear. Reality has no fear or hope in it. Death is the conclusion, so therefore, it is all moot, and we are safe. So, why not be creative, in the meantime, instead of a nation of frightened wussies? Fear, and hope, are for wussies. I'm voting for Obama because he is the infinitely less boring choice, and he does have the imagination and savvy to get this far, from way out of left field, against the wishes of the DLC. Yes, his is a new snake oil. Fresher and far less stale than the other brands on the shelf. I'll take it. Let's get him in office. It's a lousy job, but he wants the gig, and more than anyone else in decades, he has demonstrated that he has the right skill set and reptilian skin to handle it. If he weren't disappointing some of us, nay, all of us, part of the time, he would not be in the running, much less in the lead.

We will not see a president in the lifetimes of our great great grandchildren, who would not disappoint us some of the time. Try and elect the guy who doesn't disappoint all of the time. And welcome to democracy. Or is there a better idea on the table? Thanks.

And remember, the anti-choice, pro-mass murder, homophobic, misogynist bigot voters are organized and they are voting for McC@nt. So don't sleep on this, vote against those a-holes and defeat them. Or is this all just a fun little game? The world depends on us to oust the pro-war crime regime, so let's get it done. Once that's settled, we can apply pressure to the government, instead of letting the oil and gun lobbies etc. ad nauseum be the only voices bugging the new administration. Or will we just go home en masse in some fuzzy illusion that anything has actually changed? Remains to be seen. But we have to get the repuglican out, and control both houses. The right wing is depending on us to bicker at each other instead of taking care of the business at hand.

It's ours to lose. Let's win.

ops, sorry for double post. got a db error, looked like it hadn't gone through. cheers all.

Wow, I love this blog for many reasons, and visit it a couple times a day, but I could see this coming ever since we began arguing about the democratic candidates on this blog. This is just petty bullshit. Obama a sellout? Did you ever think that “hmm, maybe Obama has his own thoughts on the death penalty?” Does it disappoint you that Obama, much unlike bush, has REASON? That Obama’s not just the party’s puppet, like bush? Or was it because the conservatives had their puppet and you wanted your own? It’s hypocritical, spoiled and childish. And odds are you’d be saying the same thing if Clinton was nominated, all but Kucinich I predict (who you would probably have articles about how he can never beat McCain.) Because there always has to be something about your candidate that you don’t like. Then come election day, liberals dig their own grave so they have something to be pissed about for the next 4 years when a republican is elected. It’s blatant stupidity. Think of the classic story of the 12 year old kid who begs his parents for (in my case) a top of the line $400 snowboarding package. Then comes the time where he finally, FINALLY gets what he’d been asking for and he uses it for a week, finds out he would have rather have had the playstation and stashes it in his closet for the winter. Well, this is the same story, only you’re adults. There’s always going to be a better choice (maybe Kucinich in this case), but you should be grateful that we have such a strong democratic candidate this time around, and all the conditions are in our favor. It’s not time to act like a spoiled brat and screw it up.

I find it sad that everyone seems to be so resigned to disappointment with whoever get the White House next year. The jaded, droll humor may be masking the realization that next guy, Obama or McCain, is the last chance we get to stop America's slide into the state of former world power. It may very well be too late for the USA but it may also be too late for the whole of modern civilization. In 50 years we may be living in a Mad Max screen play.

Yep, I'm disappointed of Obama's latest stands. Very disappointed.

As I probably would have been disappointed by a lot of things Hillary would have done. But I'd rather have Obama or Clinton or Joe Biden or even Harold Ford for President than anybody from the discredited party. Especially some old sell-out who promises us four or eight more years of Bushism.

(Almost) behind us are eight years of a proto-fascist regime, "my friends". So, not voting McCain is just a question of survival for this democracy.

(Seems, there's some problem with the comment section. Some error, that isn't actually one. I'd almost have double-posted myself - if I hadn't seen all the other multiple posts.)

I'm seeing the same lesser of two evils thing here. The problem is the man directly reversed himself twice in a week. I just got an email asking for a donation so he can show McC@nt (I just love that moniker, and will use it every chance I get), he can beat his fundraising. Anyway, I'm not sending money. I want to see some backbone and some respect for the balance of power, the belief in the 4th amendment, and less equivocation. I'd also like to feel good about casting an affirmative vote, not a well it's better than the alternative. I'm seriously considering Nader or writing in Al Gore.

Why are you still beating up on Obama, Norm? I just don't get it. I thought that was gonna stop once the nomination was settled...

Whether Obama, Clinton or McCain had ended up in the White House, you'd certainly be disappointed at some point or another.

As I've said before, I'm no Obama supporter; I merely think he's the least of three evils. Obama is a politician, and I personally consider all politicians corrupt to some extent or another.

If Clinton had nabbed the nomination, I would have been disappointed — but I sure as hell would want her to win over McCain!

People accuse Obama supporters of being fanatics, but I've seen a helluva lot more crazy behavior amongst the Clinton fans. This continuous tearing down of a candidate who is now clearly the best choice for the Presidency is just that — crazy.

One Democratic delegate actually had the nerve to complain that she was stripped of her delegate status — because she had vowed to vote for McCain if Clinton didn't get the nomination.

Crazy. Just plain fucking crazy.

It's like starting to intentionally score own goals because you're pissed because your preferred choice for Captain didn't get the job — and then complain about having been removed from the game. Crazy. Can't you see that?

I'm considering writing in FDR... I have been racking my brains trying to think of things that would make me vote third party. If Obama goes back on health care, leaving Iraq or most of his other campaign promises I would still vote Obama without hesitation. However, the constitution is just to important to me. Right now Democrats cave in on most security related issues for fear of looking weak to the electorate or not showing support for the troops. They feel this is necessary to do this in order to be elected. Unless they are shown that this is unacceptable, I really do not see a change in the behavior of the Democratic party. Where is their incentive to change?

I see the Obama apologists have settled on their company line: It's okay to oppose Bush because he supports state-sanctioned murder and wants to gut the Bill of Rights, but if you criticize Obama for the same things, you are a disobedient, whining little child [see Dan L. above].

Apparently Ben Franklin had it all wrong. What he should have said was, "Those who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither, unless you're confronted with a lesser of two evils scenario, in which case you should keep your mouth shut and ditch civil liberties entirely."

Dear all, I have been and avid reader of onegoodmove.org for about three years and while I have never commented I have been entertained and delightfully stimulated for quite some time. I am a strong Obama supporter and have tolerated the anti Obama slant to this blog as healthy (or possibly unhealthy but necessary) debate. Now that Obama is the nominee I just don’t get it. I left the country for Holiday two weeks ago and expected you to get over it in that time. Now I’m back and pretty damn disappointed. I think you may have become so embittered by the last eight years that the resulting cynicism has blinded you. IT SADDENS ME TO SAY THAT I WILL NO LONGER BE READING THIS BLOG. You can email me directly if you ever get over your grudge and I will happily return but for now you seem to be a lost cause hurting the country and your own cause out of a need to win and a need to be right. This is what drives so many problems in the world. If you really care about your causes attack what really matters. There are so many bad politicians in the world and for some reason you chose to attack one trying to honestly represent the majority of what you say that you stand for.

Dan L., My disappointment with Obama doesn't stem from his position on the death penalty case - I can see how one might not see Louisiana's child-rape death penalty was a Constitutional issue. In fact, I think Obama may well be right, even if I think the death penalty for child rape is unwise - it is probably unwise even if one supports the death penalty otherwise. Likewise, Obama's backtracking on campaign financing doesn't much bother me, because I'm hopeful that the broadness of his financial support base will make him more independent of corporate interests (just a hope) – and that is what I thought campaign finance reform was hoping to achieve anyway. But on FISA - sorry, I'm going to complain. If one thinks the rule of law is important and the fourth Amendment is important, and that these two things should be of importance to all American citizens no matter what their political affiliation, then Obama has so far been a disappointment. He's backed down on an issue that is what I've considered to be one of the very worst aspects of the Bush presidency - disregard for the rule of law and the Constitution.

I'm voting for Obama - McCain is no better and probably worse on this issue, and worse on most other issues I can think of (McCain's opposition to corn-ethanol excepted). Obama is the only realistic vote for me, but I'm not going to say he hasn't disappointed me on an important issue.

So there's this blog that I have been frequenting for a couple of years now... its always been a nice place to get some perspective and some mind candy to chew on. I frequented the sight throughout the primarys, disagreeing with the moderator's endorsement but happy to have such a thing to disagree with.
I watched as Obama locked up the nomination and kept myself from commenting as the Obama jabs started landing one after another. I thought, we should surely take care to laugh at and scrutinize him too. But my little blog has changed. The moderator's usual posts coming from the high brain have started to drift downward into the reptilian brain, no longer offering intelligent ideas but more like whiny attacks (Hirshman's posthumous attack on Tim Russert, echoed here, being the most infuriating one). All I can say is you must have donated some serious cash to the Hillary Campaign to be this blinded. I agree with those above, you have to be crazy/stupid not to see the whiny idealism creeping in to destroy what we need so badly: relief from a dominant upper class centered economics and rampant corporatism and a return to honor for the US as an actor on the global stage. Politics IS the art of the possible. Peace Out.

Does anyone NOT want Obama elected? (Is that why some people are not voting or voting for a third party?) If the goal is to move everyone's vote to McCain, maybe we should start looking to see what he is voting on. Or, does someone think there is a third candidate that has a chance? And, can we start looking at their voting record/planned votes?

For example, Corporatism - I'd really like to know what you would like to happen now. (If it is get Obama to change his vote, what method do you propose to do that?)

sorry Norm -- I kept getting that binding error from MT, and like a dope I tried it four times in a row! In an effort to make up for my folly, I offer this cut from the Prisoner's election episode.

Well now that we all realize how much the two main parties suck balls, why not vote for a THIRD party?

They only have no chance if you never vote for them! But if even a few more percent vote for them than usual, people might have more confidence in casting an independent, libertarian or green vote.

@ Tim I used Obama's stance on the death penalty decision because that was one of the reasons Norm Broaaaadly labled Obama a "Sellout," after Obama made THREE decisions that Norm didn't agree with. I completely agree with the way you're looking at it: case by case. You, as I, strongly disagree with him on his FISA decision, so speak out about that issue. Don't label Obama as a lost cause and throw your vote away to a write in.

I look at it at a Darwinian stance. Liberalism is the direction American society needs to keep going in in order to become a stronger, more intelligent society. So any progress towards that path is improvement . . any step towards McCain/Bush conservative christians is a long step back. It's a long path until the average politician is as liberal as Kucinich, so you have to be realistic.

('Corporatism You Believe In', you completely missed the point of that, and instead you made a sleezy attempt to put words in my mouth. You're that exact whining child I described. Don't act like a weasel and talk civil liberties, you're an embarassment.)

@ Tim I used Obama's stance on the death penalty decision because that was one of the reasons Norm Broaaaadly labled Obama a "Sellout," after Obama made THREE decisions that Norm didn't agree with. I completely agree with the way you're looking at it: case by case. You, as I, strongly disagree with him on his FISA decision, so speak out about that issue. Don't label Obama as a lost cause and throw your vote away to a write in.

I look at it at a Darwinian stance. Liberalism is the direction American society needs to keep going in in order to become a stronger, more intelligent society. So any progress towards that path is improvement . . any step towards McCain/Bush conservative christians is a long step back. It's a long path until the average politician is as liberal as Kucinich, so you have to be realistic.

('Corporatism You Believe In', you completely missed the point of that, and instead you made a sleezy attempt to put words in my mouth. You're that exact whining child I described. Don't act like a weasel and talk civil liberties, you're an embarassment.)

"you completely missed the point of that, and instead you made a sleezy attempt to put words in my mouth. You're that exact whining child I described."

So you didn't make the crap argument anyone can scroll up and see you've made, and, to drive the point home, you immediately make the same crap argument again. I love it . . .

I'm disappointed. In Norm. Tell me, has any of your choices for a political office NOT disappointed you? Did you lash out with a "I told you" so when they did?

Geez, the guy takes a moderate stance on a politically charged issue in the middle of a tough election and you frame that as the litmus test for an entire presidency. I always thought you were a reasonable guy, how come Obama makes you so sensitive?

"Corporatism - I'd really like to know what you would like to happen now. (If it is get Obama to change his vote, what method do you propose to do that?)"

Gee, I don't know. I've been pleading for people to actually look at this guy's record for three years. In response, I've been called a "racist," a "troll," and everything else in the book. Now the Democrats who chose this fraud as their candidate want to know how to fix him. Whatever . . .

Much to our dismay, "Corporatism You Can Believe In" represents a growing constituency in America today. This cynicism must be addressed, lest we witness another election where the majority of Americans forfeit their vote.

What I find exceptionally frustrating is that Norm was 100% correct in distrusting Obama, and I was 100% foolish to get wrapped up in this "hope" meme. I feel taken advatage of. After all, I was on the rebound from Ron Paul, and desperate to back something that might actually win.

Here is where I stand with Obama: he remains my preferred candidate, and I sincerely hope he will beat McCain, however, I no longer feel any desire to root for him or argue on his behalf.

For example, when I heard a local redneck parrot the "muslim" and "madrassa" talking points earlier today, I didn't feel my usual urge to correct him. Normally I do, and I confront politely- not in hopes of changing his mind, of course, but in hopes I might convince a few people listening in. Usually I am able to get a few "thoughtful nods", and I leave feeling satisfied.

But today something even more disturbing happened. I just didn't care. The words ran to the front of my mind, and my stomache flipped, but I just couldn't bring myself to defend a man with the audacity to violate my 4th Amendment rights.

So there you have it. And yes, he's still better than McCain. Yes yes, McCain is the antichrist, I know. And compared to a room full of physically disabled people, I am a world-class athlete. Don't expect to see me on a Wheaties box anytime soon. And don't expect me to fight for something I'm not really sure I want.

Wow. Very interesting posts here today. Zaphod, I had a similar experience, though not in public. I have a personal blog, very low traffic, hardly of much consequence, but, I did feel the need to remove my very pro Obama posts, and also remove the Obama logo button link. I still support his candidacy, and I still think he's making pragmatic steps to win against considerable odds. I do not regret being one of the million + not rich americans who donated cash to his campaign. But I can't really wave his flag anymore, the same way, since, as others have stated on this board, I agree that the constitution is not negotiable. It never was, never will be. If we are American citizens, we have to start by drawing the line there. So, we have McC@nt, who would shred the constitution in an eyeblink if he could get away with it, and Obama, who now pussyfoots around a constitutional no brainer. Not a pretty sight, no. But, an optimist and a pragmatist to the end, I still maintain that getting Obama elected is of great importance. If not entirely for the things that he is, then certainly for the things that he is not. Also, there's no reason not to tell the candidate what you think on an issue, even as you support him. Obama is not entrenched, and in the best intellectual tradition, he is not done listening. His opposition, the pro-war crimes anti-humanity party, is entrenched in the worst ideas that the flawed human brain is capable of inventing, and they must be defeated. I sense at least some consensus on that here, or am I mistaken?

Oh, on a practical note, we would do well to focus on the many ways in which John McC@nt tries his level best to blow it, and get that message to as many people as possible. The corporate media will pussyfoot around the old veteran guy because they have no balls. We have the Internet. Use it.

Senator Dodd's comments are spot on. Thanks Norm, and 1gm peeps, for the thought provoking thoughts =)

George Carlin was ahead of his time.

Talking about politicians ...

"Fuck hope, Fuck hope, Fuck hope"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0u6lCBnRoHQ

Just in case anyone was wondering how it was that Americans elected GWB as president of the U.S. not once, but twice, now you know.

So if John McCain wins the nomination, don't be at all surprised.

"So if John McCain wins the nomination, don't be at all surprised."

This is the second time I've noticed you used the word 'nomination' in a context I would expect the word 'election' to be used.

The first time, I assumed you had just made a small error and didn't mean anything by it, but now you've used it again and have me wondering if you are taking a subtle jab at our election process, referring to Bush v. Gore, or something else.

if you are taking a subtle jab at our election process, referring to Bush v. Gore, or something else.

Why, you are such a thoughtful fellow you are, Syngas. Your ability to read between the lines represents such sensibility and intelligence....

lessmeaningless: It's not that George was ahead of his time. It's more like we're stuck in a very long rut. Politics doesn't evolve the way other things do because the general masses don't take very kindly to change on any rapid basis. And there are even those that would prefer us to revert to an earlier state of government. Let's reinstate segregation, for example.

Both George Carlin and Lewis Black have said this, "It's not government that sucks. It's PEOPLE that suck." And they're right. Politicians feed on the popular notions of the citizens and use them to their advantage. It's not that these comedians are ahead of their time. It's just that things refuse to chance. And on that notion, at least, they never will.