onegoodmove

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I hate this kind of stupid argument - it sickens me the Democrats are imitating the horseshit that the GOP has to rely on. Look at the GOP's record on just about any issue you can think of: war, torture, wiretapping, stagnant incomes, the reignition of inflation, home foreclosures, energy, deficit spending, corruption ... – and Democrats are playing the game on their terms! Absolutely idiotic!

Consider, for example Hillary Clinton dismisses "elite" economists.

What the hell is she trying to do - legitimize Dubya's 'Bubba' politics? It is bad enough that she made her stupid gas tax proposal, but to see this GOP-style "elite" criticism of the economists who have shredded her dumb idea turns my stomach.

Democrats are not going to out-smear the Republicans, and if they insist on fighting it out using Republican tactics, they will sacrifice their biggest advantage: THEY"RE NOT REPUBLICANS!

This is like what, only ten months old?

Clearly Michelle has developed a strong dislike for Hillary. I can't blame her for that.

Nasty Attack though, she should know better.

This is where the campaign has ended up. Bitter, stupid and destructive.

If our country's fate didn't hang in the balance you could make a sitcom out of the absurdity of it all.

Clearly Michelle has developed a strong dislike for Hillary. I can't blame her for that.

Nasty Attack though, she should know better.

This is where the campaign has ended up. Bitter, stupid and destructive.

If our country's fate didn't hang in the balance you could make a sitcom out of the absurdity of it all.

Yes because Hillary and Bill have been taking the high road this entire campaign. No low road tactics from them, nope.

That is nothing compared to watching this from Hillary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qhZCO0veeQ

well its closer to the truth than calling barak an elitist. hilary's the one who wants to make this about "character."

"OneGoodMove.org Takes The Low Road"

Norm,

Please just come out and say that you are backing Hillary Clinton if you have not done so already (I might have missed it). This clip is almost a year old and you are now posting it, right after "The Best Cartoon of the Year." Save us the suspense, your Hillary bias is painfully obvious.

Hillary Clinton is staying in this race because she wants Barack Obama to lose in November. She has no chance of winning this election, and if Barack had rolled into November with the momentum that he had, McCain would have had no chance against him. Now, Clinton is hurting the party so she can run in 2012 (if Barack won, he would be incumbent, leaving her on the sideline until 2016 at age 69).

If McCain wins this November, we will have people like Norm and Hillary Clinton to thank.

This is where the campaign has ended up. Bitter, stupid and destructive.

I wouldn't say "ended up", she made those comments back in August of last year.

in August of last year.

Not only did I get the two post error but I also missed that it was an old clip.

Clinton campaign was condescending even back then.

Michelle Obama isn't exactly a tactful politician like her husband.

Raising a dead clip makes me think norm is trying to make his own red herring argument today. Jest because Michelle got personal 6 months ago doesn't mean its ok for Hillary to do it today.

Or both campaigns have been flinging mud off and on the whole time.

The Obama camp is no different than the Hillary one.

Raising a dead clip

Actually I missed it the first time around, though maybe my memory is just getting flakey. That's an interesting charge dead clip, old news, when is a news item no longer relevant is Hillary's 'vote for the authorization' no longer relevant for example. There have been a large number of charges of dirty campaigning on the part of the Clintons and some of it's true. The point of this and other posts is that there is really not a lot of difference between the campaigns on that score. It doesn't make it okay for either side, and those that point the finger and excuse it with they do it too are fools.

The point of this and other posts is that there is really not a lot of difference between the campaigns on that score.

A potentially off the cuff remark made by a spouse is in no way equal to deceptive mailings. voter intimidation in NH or closing caucus doors early in NV.

I have heard some claims of dirty campaigning from Obama's campaign, but I don't think I would list this comment in the underhanded acts.

well, as ugly as this is, it is fair game. since, apparently, boinking interns in the white house is fair game. mr. clinton felt that intern boinking was important, and worth the risks involved. then he felt lying about it was also worth the risks. why couldn't he wait a few years, finish his term, and then get on with all the boinking he could ever want? after all, there's plenty of volunteer young boinkers for a rich, famous and powerful man, and some of them even like cigars. but it was more important in bill's mind at the time, to get on with the boinking and damn the consequences. so, ugly as it is to bring up an old matter like this, it's fair really.

now together they'll re-enter the white house? hopefully with a better plan this time, to cover up the boinking? perhaps a donkey show in the lincoln bedroom?

forgive me i must make light of this or i'll crack. to be fair, most world leaders are boinking it up right and left. with prostitutes, interns, you name it. the gay hating senators who turn out to be closeted gays, TV evangelists who like crystal meth with their gay prostitutes, governors who have expensive tastes in hookers, it's a lovely fun world, with boinking of every sort going on morning and night.

but i can't imagine what sort of weird emotional baggage is being carried around by the clintons, and i don't wish to see them work any of it out in the white house again. you know, while commanding armies and stuff. can we get a fresh face who makes rational choices, and doesn't get caught with the boinking at least? that too much to ask?

boinking interns in the white house is fair game.

If you are going to boink, boink a professional.

I'll take "boinking" over what Bush has done without hesitation. It's too bad the rest of the country seems to think it matters more than what Bush has done.

it matters more

Its not about blowjobs and the constitution, for the average joe loyalty is more important than smarts.

That said, if you look at polling, bush is actually less popular then Bill Clinton, so if you are real stupid its worse.

This isn't acceptable for either side. The reason why Clinton's camp is attacked more often for this kind of speech is because they have been doing it more often lately. Am I wrong?

Am I wrong?

Hard to say, there was once a bias in favor of Clinton in the press. I think it has changed in favor of Obama.

It's disappointing to see so many revert to the other side is worse as if that is a legitimate defense.

It's disappointing to see so many revert to the other side is worse as if that is a legitimate defense.

Its not a defense of Obama, its a defense of supporting for Obama and a valid one. We are supposed to choose the better candidate.

We are supposed to choose the better candidate.

Right.

It's no secret her only path to the nomination is to make obama "unelectable" in the general, or rather, convincing the superdelegates of such.

She'd have to win 80% of the remaining vote totals after today, which is mathmatically improbable.

I'll say it again, it's clinton's negative campaigning that hurts her more in my eyes than anything else.... it makes me more skeptial of things like nuking iran, gas tax holidays.. etc.

I have zero problem with a candidate taking the low road, doing whatever it takes to win, so long as he/she represents my interests, cause I damn well understand that the people who oppose my interests are not gonna play nice. I sure as hell wish Al Gore had taken the low road, grabbed a knife and played to win. I have no interest in the Obama's mantra of "Hope, Change, Unity, etc. etc. etc." because what that really means is "Not gonna fight for you." As one glance at his Senate record confirms, Obama is a political coward through and through.

The problem with Hillary is that, while she has a mean streak that I admire, unless you're the CEO of Wal-Mart or some similar interest, her political skills won't be serving you. She's a corporatist, and if you're a working person, she'll bust your union, sell off your job, or cut your throat as quick as any Republican will.

Does Michelle think she could stop Barak from cheating on her? Ridiculous. Or does she mean that Barak would never be let back into the house if he was caught? Not Likely. Well this is what should happen, but we won't know until it happens will we? Judging by all the politicians that have stood up on that podium and apologized for hiring a prostitute or having an affair, with their wives standing right next to them with all their support, I would be very surprised if Michelle would be any different.

When you're First Lady, the rules for what it takes to kick your husband out of the house change a little bit I think.

Does Michelle think she could stop Barak from cheating on her?

Maybe she has a trusting, loving respectful relationship with her husband.

I don't know, just a thought.

"Maybe she has a trusting, loving respectful relationship with her husband."

http://tinyurl.com/3e2wnu

Michelle Obama is a a freaking gaffe machine. She has no political instincts at all.

The irony of it all is that as much as she dislikes Hillary she will certainly be Hillary to Barack's Bill. The strident, successful, politically hamfisted 'better-half' who ends up being loved by feminists because of how hated she is by the right.

Do a Lexis-Nexis of the reight-wing media reaction to Hillary's angry "baking cookies" comment from years back and read it alongside the Powerline, George Will, Charles Krauthammer commentary on angry Michelle Obama.

For the next great Democratic president (after Obama), I propose that the Dems either nominate a man or woman married to a Laura Bush-type partner (shuts up except when calling Karl Rove names), or a person married to a politically savvy spouse.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what she is saying but did she just blame Bill's infidelity on Hillary? I don't recall any other event that would call into question Hillary's ability to run a household, so that must be what she is refering too.

You hear that ladies? If your husband strays, it's your fault.

Despite all the misogynistic things I've seen during the democratic race, I never dreamed such an attack would come from a woman speaking to a room full of women. And to applause no less.

You hear that ladies? If your husband strays, it's your fault.

This is a gaffe, women are not responsible for their husbands are.

That said, after 30 years of at least one estrangement I have heard of, constant cheating,and scandal, I think its fair to say that their marriage likely has enough blame to spread around.

You don't think this is a case of an abusive relationship do you?

Is that the low road? Doesn't sound that low to me...

Abusive relationship? No, I don't think that's the case and to suggest it seems like an attempt to manufacture a reason to further dislike Hillary.

Dislike if you must but try not to cloud your judgement.

"You don't think this is a case of an abusive relationship do you?"

No, the relationship is a bit strange to me, but about half of the marriages I know fall into that category. It's mainly from a distance and without getting into their private existence that they mostly seem normal. Betty Friedan and her husband apparently slapped each other around a bit. That is abusive, but the report was that it also worked on some level.

As it turns out I guess neither of these strong-willed, successful first ladies or future first ladies are poster children for feminism. One puts up with decades of betrayal and having to stand-by-her-man, while the other blames women for their husbands' infidelity. One can imagine how sexist it would sound if a man were attacked for not being able to control his wife and prevent her infidelity.

One can imagine how sexist it would sound if a man were attacked for not being able to control his wife and prevent her infidelity.

If Michelle was well known for sleeping around on Barack Obama his career would have gone nowhere.

No, I don't think that's the case and to suggest it seems like an attempt to manufacture a reason to further dislike Hillary.

Believe me, I have no need to manufacture new reasons and I don't believe her a victim.

Evo, You are the one that suggested that somehow her troubled marriage is not her responsibility. And perhaps that does not lead directly to the Idea of abuse but at least to her not being an equal partner in her marriage. I think that is crap.

I also think its crap for Michelle Obama to criticize her for her relationship with Bill.

I have raised his infidelity in response to Clinton's claims that she is vetted and all her skeletons are out(some right-winger just wrote a new book about Bills Philandering, including recent occasions), but some charge that who one has sex with makes them a better or worse president is hogwash.

Using a Youtube out-of-context comment from August of 2007, originally reported by Matt Drudge, to attack Michelle Obama. Wow.

Some context

Mitchell: "In fact, if the Internet writers took a deep breath they might have listened to Michelle Obama's entire thought."

Michelle Obama: "We've adjusted our schedule to make sure that our girls are first. So while he's traveling around I do day trips. That means I get up in the morning, I get the girls ready, I get them off. I go and do trips. I'm home before bedtime. So the girls know that I was gone somewhere but they don't care."

Mitchell: "It's a lesson in how quickly things can be interpreted and misinterpreted online."

Chuck Todd, NBC News Political Director: "This is the Youtube election for a reason and that is you can take a sound bite and cut it off and splash it on Youtube and suddenly create a new version of a story."

At that same period of time back in August 2007 at another stump speech, this is what Michelle Obama said.

One of the most important things that we need to know about the next president of the United States is, is he somebody that shares our values? Is he somebody that respects family? Is he a good and decent person? Our view was that, if you can’t run your own house, you certainly can’t run the White House. So, we’ve adjusted our schedules to make sure that our girls are first. So while he’s traveling around, I do day trips.”

Unless Hillary Clinton is a "he", I don't think Michelle was speaking of HIllary.

Using Youtube and Matt Drudge to attach Michelle Obama. Now that's taking the low road.

Hell, even FOX news had some context about this issue back in 2007

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. OBAMA: And my view is that if you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House. Can't do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: That was in one speech that apparently went on for a week. And the media picked up on it after a writer in the Chicago Sun Times wrote about it.

Jane, was she hitting back at Hillary Clinton?

HALL: I think it was partially a figment of the American media's imagination and our wish for a cat fight. She said we take care of our daughters.

HEMMER: We were imaging that, were we?

HALL: And it shows we're screwed up about male-female power relations, which are reflected in our much is let this spouses talk.

HEMMER: Yesterday, the writer Jennifer Hunter said she was putting two and two together and not reaching a conclusion, but a lot of other people did.

LOWRY: I don't think it was a shot at Hillary. But any time you bring up values or family in any context of the Clintons, you know, the people are going to read too much into it.

NBC’s Andrea Mitchell scolded Matt Drudge and other “Internet writers” for making much ado about nothing over Michelle Obama’s “If you can’t run your own house, you certainly can’t run the White House” presumed slam of Hillary Clinton. On Wednesday’s Today show, Mitchell ran the aforementioned quote from Sen. Barack Obama’s wife and then proceeded to wag her finger at Drudge and other “Internet writers” everywhere: “But this time her words caught the attention of a Chicago Sun-Times columnist who said, ‘It could be interpreted as a swipe at the Clintons.’ And before you could say Drudge Report, the story was an Internet headline: ‘Obama Wife Slams Hillary.’ When reporters raised it with Barack Obama, on a conference call, he tried to point out his wife was talking about her own family, not the Clintons.”

I have found countless Youtube comments by Hillary Clinton that sound awful, but I never linked to them because I always do my homework before relying on an out-of-context comment by a candidate.

Also note that this Youtube video is 32 seconds. Why? Why not post the entire speech, or at the very minimum what Michelle said before and after the out-of-context comment? Might the reason be that the poster wanted to make it seem that she was attacking HIllary?

The responsible action in addressing this comment would be to provide the full transcript to the speech.

Joann

Thx, I take everything back that I said about her remarks.

Damn the internets.

Hard to say, there was once a bias in favor of Clinton in the press. I think it has changed in favor of Obama.

The Reverand Wright story was played over and over and over and over again and is still being debated.

Hillary Clinton's Bosnia fabulous tail was discussed for maybe three days, here and there.

Where is the media bias?

Damn the internets Yeah, I know Red Seven. Anything at all can be said with little to no backup on the internets.

sigh..

fabulous tail

That would be her fabulous "tale"..

There were many polls taken on how the Reverend Wright story influenced how people voted.

What questions were asked about the Bosnia tale influencing how people voted?

Bosnia tale influencing how people voted?

I hear you. Obama took Clinton out of first place without musch more then a little grumbling about the drivers license flip flop.

Obama becomes a front runner is assailed with 24 hour attacks.

News media covered Reverend wright more then Hillary Clinton or John McCain for weeks.

Hillary yells about what free ride he is getting and they accept it as fact.

Lets not forget the under reported Clinton scandals in this campaign.

Or better yet, lets forget them. Sh can go be senator and the press better give haggee equal tiome to wright.

RedSeven:

I never said Hillary wasn't responsible for her troubled marriage, a marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership with equal responsibilty. It was her husband's infidelity that she is not responsible for, regardless of anything she may have, or have not done. Just like a battered wife is not responsible for an abusive husband. Not that I think you believe that, I simply believe that your irrational hatred is clouding your judgement. What you would see one way is seen different within the context of Hillary Clinton, or so I believe.

JoAnn:

About the other Michelle Obama speech at "the same time period", just for clarification, was this other speech before or after the above shown "gaffe"? Because I see some noticeable differences, in the clip she says "you", not "he". "...if you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House". She also talks about rolemodels for good families, which history shows the Clintons are not (largely due to Bill). Couple these things together and it's quite easy to misinterpret what she is saying, if it is a misinterpretation at all.

Wright vs. Snipers in Bosnia:

There is a simply reason why one of these events lasted longer in the news media than the other. Hillary mispoke (or lied, whatever you want to call it) about a single incident. Obama attended Wright's church for 20 years. Wright was his pastor, a person (from a religious point of view) who teaches unquestionable truthes. And from what Wright has said, it's perfectly reasonable to question Obama about whether he believes it. Wright also made a recent comeback to media attention, reopening the can of worms. There was no further "gaffe" from Hillary about snipers. Both incidents got far more media attention than they deserved but don't try to put them on equal footing.

Michelle Obama says this...

if you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House

You say this...

You hear that ladies? If your husband strays, it's your fault.

Unless you believe that the only problem in the Clinton household was Bill's affairs,you were indeed implying that "Hillary wasn't responsible" for the troubles in her own relationship.

I could make that out, even through my blinding rage;)

There was no further "gaffe" from Hillary about snipers.

Like I said earlier, this stuff is history and as long as Clinton stays positive it can stay that way.

But she did repeat the "lie"'"gaffe" a number of times. In the middle of a debate she said, I said something that is not what i know to be true. That was followed not by "why did you say it then?", but instead, 30 more minutes about how much rev wright loves America and if the flag was in Obama's support.

Do I believe that infidelity was the only problem in the Clinton's marriage? No, all marriages have their problems. Infidelity just happens to be the Clinton's most public issue in their marriage, therefore the most obvious problem any such an allusion would be made about. Hence my comment.