onegoodmove

I'm quite surprised, Norm. I thought you'd have given some input on the DC Madam's alleged suicide by now.

alleged suicide

Is there some reason to think it's something else?

Of course there's a reason. Many powerful people stood to be harmed by information she possessed. Any police detective investigating her death who was worth 2 Krispy Kremes and a cup of coffee would consider the possibility that she was murdered.

As to whether there is any direct or circumstantial evidence of such...another matter altogether.

The meat/methane connection is thought provoking. One line from the snippet you linked was funny: "But it’s well known how to reduce global warming emissions by 18%, and it has been well known since a United Nations report published in 2006. We stop eating meat. Just the news vegetarian Hummer drivers have been waiting for it seems." I couldn't help chuckling over the idea of vegetarian Hummer drivers - I'm sure that is a big group!

Beef also uses a huge amount of water:

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/pimentel_water.htm

Here's an even better description of the effect of beef on the water supply:

http://www.goveg.com/environment-wastedResources-water.asp

My wife says I could lower the amount of methane in the atmosphere all by myself if I would stop eating so many beans. If I've got to give up meat and beans, I'd rather live in a slightly warmer climate!

The meat/methane connection is thought provoking.

Don't you reduce most of the CO2 emissions when you eat grass fed Beef etc? Isn't the majority of the energy cost in the production and transport of all the corn?

I have to assume there were more buffalo on the plains 200 years ago then there are cattle today.

It's the warehoused and corn fed Beef and Pork that is both environmentally destructive and unhealthy to eat.

I just want an occasional steak, and I will drive an electric car to get it.

The Satirical Political Report - Reverends Wright and Hagee Collaborate on a Global Warming Commercial

The parallel democrats should push is Wright to Bush. Both candidates have associates with unpopular political views, McCain copies his albatrosses views verbatim and Obama renounces his.

McCain can Walk away from Hagee at the drop of a hat. He has chained himself to bush.

On the other hand, Hagee should put the white Catholic vote firmly in democratic hands regardless of any trouble Obama has there.

Going vegetarian/vegan isn't necessary. Just eat less meat and dairy. Anyone can do that.

Also, telling your average meat-eater to go vegan just guarantees that they won't even try.

For example, if you're used to that daily grain-fed South American 24oz porterhouse (for which rainforest was burned to make pastures etc.), switching to every other day is going to have way more impact than convincing me to go vegan.

Or, as Rabelais said: "Set them together, said Panurge, then blow in their arses, it will be a bagpipe."

The "them" could be Barack and Hillary, but I prefer M$ and Yahoo.

And I do tend to agree with Quaternion: a complex addiction like meat must be discarded by stages. I never thought I could give up steak; that was 10 years ago. I never thought I could give up bacon and ham; that was 5 years ago. Last year, poultry went into my past. One thing I've found out over those years is that there's a ton of really yummy food that isn't made from bodies raised on factory farms!

While we're on the subject...

I love seafood, but I don't want to support reef trawling, deplete low fish stocks, or eat the world's last bluefin tuna.

Luckily, the Monterey Bay Aquarium provides a really nice tool for figuring out the best seafood to eat. You can search or browse their seafood listing, or you can print out a handy pocket-sized guide to take with you shopping.

If you do bring a list shopping, you'll be surprised how many fish you'll see from the "Avoid" list -- be it Trader Joe's, Walmart, or Whole Foods.

Don't you reduce most of the CO2 emissions when you eat grass fed Beef etc? Isn't the majority of the energy cost in the production and transport of all the corn?

Yes. But CO2 and methane (CH4) are produced at different points in the process. The latter is a major byproduct of digestion produced by cows, which has been shown in and of itself to be having a huge warming effect; it, like CO2, is a greenhouse gas. Feeding cows grass does create significant reductions in the CO2 produced by the industry (as well as freeing up valuable agricultural property for feeding humans), but the methane remains a problem; nothing short of defying the essence of biology will stop cows producing it.

An intriguing solution to this, though, is the idea of an "energy self-sufficient farm", one where the methane produced by cattle is captured and burned as a source of energy. Methane is easily the cleanest-burning of all organic, or fossil fuels, and the net carbon released does not increase with combustion. Ideally, a farm would be able to use this byproduct to meet all their energy needs, thus requiring less electricity to be produced in the first place.

nothing short of defying the essence of biology will stop cows producing it.an

Yes but isn't large animals producing methane on the prairy only natural? If not cows, then Bison, elk , moose and Deer.

We transformed their old habitats into cattle ranches. And if some animal is going to eat grass, what does it hurt for me to eat that animal? Unless are going to sterilize the great plains.

An intriguing solution to this, though, is the idea of an "energy self-sufficient farm",

Hard to let them graze when they have a tube up their butt.

For you, Red

good links today, and i'm enjoying them with white wine, near san francisco. yes, and cheese too, mmm.

i have a comment on the Iran Clinton / Obama bit. it was Clinton who brought it up. rhetoric is important. our leaders get to choose what the do and don't say. look, any American president is going to clobber Iran if they attack Israel. that's just a fact, if you inhabit reality as it stands for the present and foreseeable future. but, why say it? why rattle that saber? what good does it do? rally some hawk votes? ick.

i prefer a president who doesn't threaten to "obliterate" people on the campaign trail. for fucks sake.

Hard to let them graze when they have a tube up their butt.

Clever, but when you consider that cows spend a good deal of time indoors while sleeping (their bodies emit methane constantly) and while being milked, a good-size farm should be able to glean a pretty fair quantity of natural gas from them. I can't seem to find the link to where I first learned about this, but if I find it I'll post it.

Methane digester

You can't really harvest the methane from burps and farts, but you can get it from the manure.

but you can get it from the manure.

Yes indeed. My point continues to be that if you essentially let them be free range grass fed cattle there is no good way to collect the majority of the methane.

another seafood guide to eco-friendly fish

and, my manditory NPR link to a discussion on seafood and marketing and environment with such helpful information that some old fish are renamed to be more marketable, like Toothfish.

There's actually not that much methane emitted by the manure (see Mythbusters). Cows belch at least 80% of the methane they are responsible for.

I do believe this belched air is recoverable for the methane in their sleeping and milking quarters, but not sure.

Does anyone know for sure on that one?

One more thing...yes try to only eat grass fed. Corn and grain suppress cow's immune system - this is why there was ecoli on spinach. Cow's are meant to eat grass.

Also, I think if we go back to more "wild" breeds of cattle (highland cattle, etc.) the levels of methane emissions will go down.