onegoodmove

i guess we know who'll be running the white house.

Can't wait to see how this is spun in the media.

"Barack too weak to keep his woman in check"

I dunno, I think Mrs Obama really adds to her husbands 'I'm for real' credibility. How nice to have someone connected to the political process speak before they've had their personality beaten out of them by PR consultants.

Glad to see, you can relate to him, Norm. :-)

But I think you're taking some leap here. I think it's just that he was in the way of answering a question (in his admittedly not very efficient way of talking), and was interrupted, tried to stop the interruption for a fraction of a second - and in the following milisecond decides that it would be rude to do so. Highly professional and empathic, if you ask me.

i guess we know who'll be running the white house.

I hope you're not serious. Look what we have now: a dishwater-dull Laura Bush sits mute while her moron husband spews incomprehensible garbage. Laura knows her reason for being there: to gaze adoringly on her brave, inspiring, godly man and to respond only to questions directed solely to her.

Norm, you're such a jerk. Your subtly snide effort here to conjure up stereotypes about "strong black women" is really nasty. So is the effort to suggest that Obama wouldn't be the one to run things if this couple made it to the White House, because this "strong black woman" would keep thrusting herself into things (zdzp's knee-jerk sexist response shows that this strategy of yours worked).

You hide your racism well, but sometimes it peeks out from under the surface of your bland, mildly disgruntled persona.

It was Michelle's speech to Iowans at their state fair, I think–when she said she and the kids were there to eat food on a stick–that I decided I wanted her to be my First Lady. Hillary was a good First Lady, but I think Michelle will redefine the role. This clip isn't her finest expository moment, but it isn't bad. I'll just be glad to have someone with intelligence in the White House, on both sides of the bed.

I think the reality of this situation is that Obama is asked, "Are you being treated unfairly?" To which the obvious answer is yes. He stops himself from saying that and starts calculating the answer that won't get him in trouble.(Yes, has at times been the right answer for Hillary too.)

His wife starts talking and for a second he is struck with fear that she may actually say "yes".

The Rolling Stones quote is an odd addition to the post.

I know that she was talking off the cuff, but I'm not terribly impressed by the way she talks. I've heard much more cohesive talk over dinner with friends. If this is the best that the States has to offer, I'm pretty pessimistic about the future. It's an improvement over what you have now, but that's not saying very much.

Those of us who've encountered Michelle in a non-campaign setting have found "strong" to be among other things a euphemism for "rude." But then again, that probably applies to most any political spouse.

The OGM spin on this clip feels a lot like shaking our heads in resignation to find that–sigh–Michelle and Barack are, well, human. And what a disappointment that is, when what we really seek are saviors. Saints. Not a president, a first among equals.

I agree, I do not know why this clip is hyped to such a deal as to deserve a 1gm posting.

I guess I don't know what is meant by this post. Two ordinary people, a couple, with equal chance to speak.

So what? Are we supposed to tsk Barack on this?

I actually had a similar impression when watching the entire Countdown segment last night, but there wasn't enough in the body language to be sure exactly what the dynamic was. It also occurred to me that Barack might not be totally comfortable sitting silently while others speak for and about him. I've certainly found that a bit awkward at times myself. But the bottom line is, it's very hard to do anything but speculate about such matters, especially with so little to go on.

Here's a video from the same interview [youtube], played on the Today Show itself, that shows more of the dynamic between Barack and Michelle, particularly at the end. This particular piece seems to portray Meredith Viera as very friendly and even flattering toward the Obamas, whereas the Countdown piece presented her as a bit more perfunctory, even brusque.

Why is this significant? Because it shows how editing choices can create very different impressions of the same individuals.

I hope that this fact will finally get firmly and indelibly impressed upon the minds of the public in this media-driven culture during this election season. We humans are fraught with exploitable flaws, and there are powerful influences in media & government that are more than happy to push our buttons. The only way to protect ourselves is to develop resistances through honest reflection and self-examination.

In cases such as this, our best bet is to watch the whole interview, start to finish, even if we'd rather consume a soundbite or two in the time it takes to gulp down a Red Bull.

That being said, the entire Countdown segment is here:

Part 1 [youtube]

Part 2 [youtube]

The interview in its entirety will be aired on MSNBC on Saturday.

I admire strong women. We need more not fewer of them. Hillary Clinton is a strong woman. I was listening to Jimmy Carter talking about his most recent book about his mother, a strong woman and thinking how lucky he was. My own mother was a strong woman. If Barack becomes president it will be a plus that his wife is a strong woman. We don't need a do nothing say nothing Laura Bush type. I applaud all women who have gotten out from under the thumb of the patriarchal sexist men that have ruled our country and the world for centuries. I think the jerk is the one who raises a charge of racism where none exists. He could try to make the argument that the post is sexist, but he would look just as foolish doing that. I wonder is he married? If so, does he keep his wife under his thumb?

Speaking of strong women... (Women's Voices Women Vote is busy with Voter supression in North Carolina)[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90114863] focusing primarily on African-American women. Strange huh.

Even weirder, is the ties WVWV have to Hillary clinton and Bill. Many served in bill's administration or election campaign.

But Democrats wouldn't be a part of voter supression, right?...

Right?

Oh wait, let's assume barack hates his wife and can barely stand her. That seems to be more important at this moment in time.

The NPR story on WVWV -linky

Norm. After many many many anti obama posts, I think most people were confused at your intent, which seemed to be saying that Obama was being rude or his wife was loud and obnoxious, or obama was trying to keep Michelle "Under his Thumb"

The Rolling Stones quote is an odd addition to the post.

I just think people were confused at if you were being snarky in the post, or what. Your Clarification in the comments clears that up, thanks.

You hide your racism well, but sometimes it peeks out from under the surface of your bland, mildly disgruntled persona.

This is uncalled for. You have no right to disparage someone who is providing a service. If you don't like what you see on OGM, then take a hike. Calling someone a racist because you disagree with his views of Obama is something that is all too typical of Obama's supporters. It is unacceptable.

You hide your racism well, but sometimes it peeks out from under the surface of your bland, mildly disgruntled persona.

Yeah, this is not justified. I was having a little trouble getting Norms point, which is why I remarked on not getting the RS quote.

That said. Hard to see any racism here. Especially as he is comparing the relationship to his with his own wife.

BTW, does your wife get involved in the blog at all? I can't remember her being mentioned before.

Macon D said:

Norm, you're such a jerk. Your subtly snide effort here to conjure up stereotypes about "strong black women" is really nasty. * * * You hide your racism well, but sometimes it peeks out from under the surface of your bland, mildly disgruntled persona.

The irony of this is that, far from being subtly snide, Macon D has overtly accused Norm, based on less data than the bit of body language Norm registered his impressions about in the first place.

People, this is a clear example of what bias looks like. There simply wasn't enough information in what Norm said to draw the conclusion that Macon D drew. Nor, for that matter, is there enough information to refute his conclusion. (Sorry Norm - it's logic, not preference. It's very hard to prove a negative.)

It seems probable to me that Macon D expected to see a certain thing, and unconsciously "colored" (ha ha, my little "go ahead, put ME in the crosshairs" joke) his perceptions with his expectations - a habit commonly known in psychology as transference. The content of his website [stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com] seems to support such an interpretation.

NOW, it's crucial to recognize, too, that the dynamic that Macon D is talking about does exist. But that doesn't mean that it exists everywhere that he sees it.

Same goes for Reverend Wright. He makes some excellent points. But he tries to carry them beyond their logical limits. Did the US Government inflict AIDS on blacks? If Wright is going to say so, the burden of proof is on HIM.

Is Norm a closet racist? If you're going to say so, Macon D, the burden of proof is on YOU.

Relating this to something personal to me: Is Norm getting paid by a political faction to present a particular viewpoint? If I'm going to say so, the burden of proof is on ME. Well, I did present that speculation several days ago. But I have NO facts to back it up, so I had to admit I was a bit irresponsible even putting it out there to be taken seriously. Thankfully, I wasn't irate enough to toss out any accusations, but if I had, I would have had to apologize, unequivocally. And I would have done so, willingly. Because WHAT is right is much more important than WHO is right.

Macon D?

I just think people were confused at if you were being snarky in the post, or what. Your Clarification in the comments clears that up, thanks.

I agree. Use some smilies Norm.

Smile = :)

Doh = >.<

Oh brother = -.-

Cry about it = Q.Q

or make up some of your own.

This is uncalled for.

I agree.

Calling someone a racist because you disagree with his views of Obama is something that is all too typical of Obama's supporters.

I disagree.

It is unacceptable.

I agree.

Thanks for the full interviews perspicio. :D These extended interviews are making me like Hillary and Barack even more. (I'm still supporting Barack though >.>)

I'll be speaking about this or that, about to impart wisdom only I possess, when my wife will interrupt me to add some point that I'm sure will not be nearly as good as what I was about to say. My reaction is to try to silence her with a wave of my hand. And then, resigned to the fact that she is going to speak her mind, I'll sit quietly and listen.

I think this is the part that is the most.. confusing about what you were getting at. At face value, it sounds like "i know more than my wife, but sometimes I just have to let her run her mouth".

Oh, and don't QQ about it.

I don't understand the fury in all the comments. It was a nice post showing that Obama has a wife who is not afraid to speak her mind. Norm was just pointing that out making a comparison and a joke about himself. Why the extreme reaction to this post!!? I think people are getting heated up about this election topic and taking anything that Norm posts about Obama as anti-Obama. I did'nt see this post that way and it really surprises me that a lot of people did.

I thought he was just going to hold her hand.

"Calling someone a racist because you disagree with his views of Obama is something that is all too typical of Obama's supporters." -- Charles Lemos

I agree. My tendency is to prefer Obama over Clinton, but the fact that I've been labeled a "racist," and even banned from a message board, by Obama supporters simply for asking legitimate questions about this candidate is something I find very disturbing.

I didn't see this post that way and it really surprises me that a lot of people did.

It surprised me too. Your take on it was exactly what I intended.

Nah, that ain't racism. This is what elitist racism looks and sounds like.

And THIS...is the antidote.

This is what elitist racism looks and sounds like.

Syn, there is already a Clintonspiracy theory to explain that.

Wow! Youtube yanked the video! Hillrod is one strong woman!

Hmmmmmmm...join the club of a mountain troll:

Laura, her l'aura halo of saintly emptiness:

"her moron husband spews incomprehensible garbage."

And she meekly says "Nothing" with her body language. Yes we do need better, if not the very best, examples of word spew from our leaders. Bush might have some talent for something, but...what?...who's the clown put him up to turning the White house into an absurd-comedy club? Psychopath Rove alone? Or "collectivist-haters", collectively...responsible/guilty: the Good(/Bad/Ugly) Amerikan?

"I applaud all women who have gotten out from under the thumb of the patriarchal sexist men that have ruled our country and the world for centuries."

And "I do" feel sorry for all men who have gotten out from under the thumb of the traditional matriarchal "sexist" women that have ruled OUR country for centuries. (Check out the traditional Hopi-landed gentry-women.) I would think it would be a great relief to have the (fill in the blank) Man's burden lifted from his Atlas-sore shoulders in the wider world after so many centuries of dirty work.

"Tis not unpresidented. Eleanor Roosevelt, weekly press conferences, syndicated newspaper column, frequent personal appearances, etc. Any masculinist worthy of the name should want to free himself, his sex, from the stereotyped out, double-spaced, regulations of our current ought-derived-from-ism. To have a control your control opt-i(o)n/out. Obama's cool. I'd love to see some recent Hil and Bil / Bil and Hil, interviews for comparison.

Sweet Candy (Mc)Cain? Sicka Mafiosa. Wingardium! Bill as 1st 1st man? Weird, maybe too weird. Michelle as just another non-non-entity 1st lady-like-that?

Fine by me.

Chris Rock had some funny things to say about Barack's wife. It's from his new year's eve show at Madison Square Garden.

I tried to clean up the audio quality, but you still may have to lean in a bit to understand every word.

The stuff about 'Barack's handicap' is at around 5 minutes 10 seconds in.

http://www.mediafire.com/?wvcevbuvz52

It's also nice to hear the crowd's reaction to Hillary's, Barack's and (then still candidate) Giuliani's names!

Why does it seem that Michelle Obama is everything that Obama supporters accuse Hillary of being? Kinda like projection.

philosopher's tone: getting slightly less transparently irrational every day ... as 1.22474...

Calling someone a racist because you disagree with his views of Obama is something that is all too typical of Obama's supporters.

Thank you, Charles Lemos, OGM spiritual advisor and the king of generalizations, which in some areas of thought is considered bigotry.

when my wife will interrupt me to add some point that I'm sure will not be nearly as good as what I was about to say.

This says to me that either your wife is an idiot or you think a little too highly of your own intelligence. I saw something completely different. I saw that Barak thought that the question was directed to him but immediately relinquished the floor to his very eloquent wife. Barak will make a terrific president and will do wonders to restore faith in American, both at home and abroad (something that I am concerned with in these days of a drastically sinking dollar).

If Hilary wins, I win as well because I think she would make a fine president.

Stop the stupid in-party bickering and start slamming the Republicans every chance you get...everyone!

You hide your racism well, but sometimes it peeks out from under the surface of your bland, mildly disgruntled persona.

The absolute best part of this whole campaign - the truly delicious experience - is watching liberals tear each other apart, calling each other 'racist', 'sexist', and so on.

Surely it should be obvious to all of you just how ridiculous it is to be a left-winger. You can never be 'unracist' enough. You can never be 'unsexist' enough. You can never be 'homophilic' enough. There will always be somebody out there on a higher soapbox than you screaming that your views are secretly bigoted, that you're a member of the KKK or a wife-beater, et cetera, et cetera.

Normally people mature out of liberalism through age and experience. Here's hoping the hilarious infighting of this election will help some mature more quickly.

Thank you, Charles Lemos, OGM spiritual advisor and the king of generalizations, which in some areas of thought is considered bigotry.

Surely it should be obvious to all of you just how ridiculous it is to be a left-winger. You can never be 'unracist' enough. You can never be 'unsexist' enough. ...

Sounds like the King got overthrown.

Thanks calli. All it takes is one post from you to remind us all of who is really the enemy, and how blind conservatives really are.

Normally people mature out of liberalism through age and experience.

This is called "get off my lawn" syndrome, where through your use of a well built american system (paid for by your parents and their parents), you feel like the politicians are only using taxes for their own paychecks. You become a bitter old man who thinks taxes never did no good never.

Starving people be DAMNED, it's their own fault anyway, right calligirl?

Leftbanker,

When you say

"This says to me that either your wife is an idiot or you think a little too highly of your own intelligence "

it shows you do not understand sarcasm or you take a humorous comment too seriously or you understand but choose to see the comment that way. I am not speaking for Norm here, but I think it was pretty obvious when he says

" when my wife will interrupt me to add some point that I'm sure will not be nearly as good as what I was about to say"

Norm is taking a poke at himself for the very common human tendency that everyone has (including the posters here) to think that they are the one's who are always right

Its a JOKE people! I am sure Norm is not calling Michelle Obama an idiot.

I think most value their own opinions too highly, I'm certainly no exception.

And no my wife doesn't get too involved in my blogging at this site. I occasionally ask her opinion on something I'm posting here as a check on my own sensibilities and she will freely tell me if she thinks I'm full of it or of myself.

You've go to love the question begging criticism some substitute for thoughtful comments.

More smilies, no way, I hate the little buggers.

Sorry about posting the link to the doctored video folks. It looked pretty authentic when I first saw it.

I thought your comment was really funny, Norm. And, I know exactly what you mean. I'm surprised anyone in a relationship with another thinking person didn't get it, immediately.

That said and, I haven't watched the whole interview so maybe it plays out differently in context but, I wanted more of Barack - less of Michelle.

It looked pretty authentic when I first saw it.

The "real" video is completely inaudible, so it seems likely someone filled in what they wanted and did a good job of it.

The first part of the slur could be him talking about the polling firm.

Interesting that Norm's intro would cause such controversy. My take on the negative reactions was that people are either in this amazing egalitarian and self-actualized relationships so they would never think to dismiss another's comments or that they must walk on eggshells 24/7. I'm not currently in a relationship, but I can think of times my boyfriends and I have fallen into the trap Norm described - it happens, folks. Then you realize why you're with that person - they're strong and intelligent and 99% of the time what they have to say is great; the other 1% you just have to smile and wait for your turn to be a goof.

As for a strong woman, I do think Michelle is that. She wouldn't even let Viera break into her response - hah! From what I can tell, neither Barack nor Michelle Obama care to have words put in their mouths, and they will finish what they have to say then let the other have a say.

This particular clip does cast a certain light on the interview, so yes, seeing the whole thing would be helpful. When there's time (when the semester ends).

(zdzp's knee-jerk sexist response shows that this strategy of yours worked).

that someone would consider the quip sexist has got some real deep-seated issues.

what's wrong with having a woman run the white house? it's happened before and for good cause it would seem. would you rather she sit quietly and nod approvingly while she gets patted on the head. whether she does run it or not, it's clear she speaks her mind so the quip may have be hyperbole, but really, get a grip.

Thats it?

Really?

You could find something wrong with the way Obama shakes his dick after pissing.

Go become a republican.

I noticed the same thing and I thought it was very cute. Very real. And another reason I love these two. They seem real.

They just don't seem as calculating and disingenuous as Lucrezia and Bill.

1-- John McCain is not a hero of any sort.

2-- If you believe the ridiculous lie that these two are not interested in power and prestige, I've got a bridge to sell you . . .

1-- John McCain is not a hero of any sort.

Hero is the most abused word in america today.

Used to be Hero meant you risked your life to save the life of another in an act you are not ordered to do.

Today, you can crash a plane or just put on a uniform. Instant hero.

"Today, you can crash a plane or just put on a uniform. Instant hero."

Man, I hope that becomes the Democratic campaign slogan!

wow, i finally watched this clip, and i really appreciate what mrs. obama said. and i don't think mr. obama handled it poorly at all. this is the couple that should live in the white house.

"Today, you can crash a plane or just put on a uniform. Instant hero." Man, I hope that becomes the Democratic campaign slogan!

If the Democratic candidate were to hire Karl Rove, you might just get your wish. He managed to make his Texas Air National Guard AWOL asshole the hero when pitted against a Vietnam veteran.

So how effective do you think it will be for Hillary or Barack?

I wouldn't hazard a prediction - if rationality held sway, Karl Rove would be universally recognized as the complete pig he is. If the American public were rational, they would look at the prognostications of douche bags like Bill Kristol and other neoconservatives - compare them with reality - and none of them would have the credibility to get an interview on Wayne's World, much less a job at the NYT.

If the Democratic candidate were to hire Karl Rove, you might just get your wish. He managed to make his Texas Air National Guard AWOL asshole the hero when pitted against a Vietnam veteran.

Although I appreciate the strategic value of such attacks, my intent was not to be rovian. Certainly we should honor the service of McCain, and I don't really know enough about his service to judge him. I only mean to say that the term hero should mean something for those people that actually dive into harms way to save their fellow man. And it is valid to ask if McCain ever did that before we let the media call him a hero every five minutes for the rest of the election.

Both of my Grandfathers served in WWII, did some amazing things.

I never even heard them utter the word hero about themselves or anyone of the many that fought and died beside them.

I followed this post and comments, sensing that Norm's intro would trigger all kinds of lunatic over-sensitivity. It's, admittedly, a low-level form of entertainment but I was not disappointed.