Do you mean to tell me that George Stephanopolous, the former communications director under Bill Clinton, hosted a program which was biased in favor of his former boss?

Holy shit- I need to rethink this Obama situation after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpJH55_PEPI

Neocon is as neocon does.

I would vote for either (or both) as opposed to McCain (/Romney).

That was an easy one, Norm (for those of us who read Krugman twice a week). Another reason why, as I've said many times already, these two will have to be in the same package if we're to see the blue team win come World Series time. Whether it's Clintama or Obinton, that's the only ticket that will keep the Dems together enough to wallop McCain in November.

At the very end of the video (where it gets cut off), the person says that it's not about liberalism or progressivism. This cut off line seems to be the smartest words spoken in this clip. In my mind what they propose is more important than who better adheres to liberal dogma.

For what it's worth though, I think Clinton is more liberal, and I think Clinton will be a slightly better choice is economic management is the most critical issue in this election. But it's not a matter of "who's the true liberal".

It's true, Clinton is a shade more liberal on economic/social policy.

On the other hand, Obama is miles more liberal in his approach to the "war on terror". I don't think someone who votes for the war and against habeas corpus can be called more liberal than someone opposes the war and votes in defense of habeas corpus who's a shade less liberal on health care and dealing with the mortgage problem. After giving this executive the power to invade Iraq (surely knowing, as EVERYONE did, that this power would be exercised), Clinton then votes to give the executive the power to designate people "enemy combatants" and hold them without charge and any right to due process.

The difference between Obama and Clinton on health care is interesting, but really a small matter of degree. Whether or not you vote for war and for fundamental human rights is not a matter of degree; it is the difference between war and peace and between human rights and authoritarianism.

I agree with Clinton's healthcare plan more than I do with Obama's, but it's one issue of many. Bill Clinton's presidency, which she is running on, was built on the DLC style of democratic rule. Why will her admin be different? Her campaign is full of the DLC (more like "light" republicans than liberal democrats) folks who brought you things like Nafta, DOMA, and (oh yeah) the Iraq War.

I completely agree that we need to push Obama's health plan into something more progressive, but Hillary is wrong on too many other issues, and to boot, she is running her campaign like Karl Rove is on the payroll.

...."on this issue"

at a time when she is being attacked from the left and he is being attacked from the right.

Obama is miles more liberal in his approach to the "war on terror". I don't think someone who votes for the war and against habeas corpus can be called more liberal than someone opposes the war and votes in defense of habeas corpus who's a shade less liberal on health care and dealing with the mortgage problem. After giving this executive the power to invade Iraq (surely knowing, as EVERYONE did, that this power would be exercised), Clinton then votes to give the executive the power to designate people "enemy combatants" and hold them without charge and any right to due process.

This is basically where I stand as well. Although Obama, if he's elected, will face tremendous pressure to get on board with our imperialistic foreign policy, Hillary has already embraced it as the sine qua non of being viewed as a "serious" foreign policy person. I would like to see the neoconservatives crushed - after all, they've been wrong about just about everything. While I have few illusions that Obama will do that, Hillary seems like she is little different than the Republicans on foreign policy (though she would undoubtedly take a cooperative stance with allies as a matter of tactics). Hell, Chuck Hagel seems to be less belligerent than Hillary.

Hell, Chuck Hagel seems to be less belligerent than Hillary

Yep, Chuck Hagel voted against the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment. Hillary Clinton voted for the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment. Obama did not vote but said that he would have voted agaist it.

"Kyl-Lieberman Amendment."

I am a Krugmaniac (I drink to the man, he's my man, etc), but isn't Israel more of a subtext in the Obama vs. Hil dust devil than is outloudly stated?

So?

Obey your instincts, Remember "read my lips" George (Sr.)? He was also firmly planted on that conveyor belt that leads inevitably to the White House. I personally detest the Persians (and the Medes), but some of the Aryan tribes are okay, liberators of Baby(lon Rocks), and all...

I don't really listen to what Krugman says about Obama anymore, it's become too personal to him for some reason, ever since "their hero or no one". But Reich is an Obama supporter (though a less accomplished economist than Krugman), so him saying Obama is less liberal (on this one issue of the housing crisis) is saying something.

Hillary is more liberal on some issues. The health care plan is marginally more liberal, and maybe a better idea. The housing crisis plan is more government-controlled. Hillary is in general an old kind of New Dealer on many economic, domestic issues. I don't think that makes her more left. You can be more free-market and still have economic equality as a primary or very important value.

Culturally and in terms of foreign policy, I think Hillary is clearly more conservative. You won't find of Obama pushing a flag-burning law. He never would have made the speeches Hillary made about Iraq. He's never had those impulses, in all his public life. I think people sell Hillary short when they say she does this just for political gain. She really seems to me to be a hawkish, 50s style New Deal liberal.

"Do you mean to tell me that George Stephanopolous, the former communications director under Bill Clinton, hosted a program which was biased in favor of his former boss?"

Come on. He put Brazile and Reich up there. Not exactly an all pro-Clinton crowd.