onegoodmove

Holy crap is that argument for the Mac value bad.

It does make a lot of sense to the average consumer (and it probably makes more sense to the over indoctrinated mac user) but in terms of actual sense, it fails.

As someone who is comfortable on several computing platforms, it's sad to see several of these all out fallacies. Like how 'gunked up' a PC MUST be after only a year or two of use. What this tells me isn't about the great resale value of the mac, but rather just HOW computer illiterate the general populous is. It's actually kinda sick how Apple preys on a customer base of people who want to play with expensive toys without learning how to use them. Just to note; My PC is 5 years old. I just upgraded it to a top of the line box for $400, it runs circles around any mac at fraction of the cost. I went three years without any kind of anti-virus and had no problems. (I only have Norton now because my network requires it)

You don't have to be exceptionally gifted to keep your computer clean. It's like keeping your car in good shape. Did you change the oil? Get new tires? Just stop going to website through stupid blinking advertisements, and be careful what you download.

Back to their argument -- a gunked up PC? Format and resell it. That requires about an hour to do really properly, and there's no risk of people getting your personal files when you're done. I agree that Vista is lack luster, but Mac OS of every flavor has been no better. XP and Linux are far better as far as I'm concerned.

If Apple opened up their hardware (allowing for 'clones' like in the early days of PCs) they would get better prices. If they built their OSes with better advanced options, they wouldn't be so annoying to use. If they would think about functionality first and aesthetics second, I wouldn't end up wanting to beat someone violently with their stupid super-mouse every time I have to use it.

(And they've gotta STOP saying the PC vs Mac debate is over. It'll NEVER be over unless Apple or Microsoft goes out of business and no one takes their place! Historical Note; in the beginning Mac's 'won' and then PCs beat them. Even if Macs were 'winning' right now, it could just as easily change).

Enough of that, but it has to be said. (Most people don't care what computer you use, can we stop fighting about it now?)

re: "Once and for all, proof that Macs are cheaper than PCs They are also more fun and in my opinion better in every way."

The fact that Macs are out there simply to give MS some competition, is a good thing -- but aside from that, I see no point to those machines anymore.

And I'm an old Mac fanatic... When people asked me whether to go Mac or PC, I told them to go Mac, because it was simply a superior system -- but that if they had PCs at work, go PC. Simple as that. But that changed with Windows95... It still wasn't as good as a Mac -- but it was good enough.

Bill Gates might not be a nice man, but Steve Jobs makes him seem like Mr. Rogers.

"Apple fans have long understood the amazing resale value of their machines. Windows users, on the other hand, might be scratching their heads at my argument; in the Windows world, selling your computer (rather than recycling it) is almost unheard of. After just a year or two of use, a Windows machine gets so gummed up with spyware, viruses and other nasty stuff that it seems malicious to ask anybody for money for the thing."

This argument is bunk. The reason PCs come with so much gunk, and that they acquire so much gunk over time, is that there are so many people using them. Anyone wanting to sell their products by piggybacking on brand name computers, or by sneaking onto user's computers via downloads, aren't going to target Mac users, there simply aren't enough of them for the tactic to be viable. It is the same reason an Apple virus is rare, there aren't enough Macs. A person that writes virus code wants to make an impression. For that they have to be able to infect as many computers as possible, and there are more PCs than Macs.

luckystarr,

The argument that you call bunk says nothing about why the PC has "so much gunk" - only that it does - and you have basically stipulated that in your (non)refutation. I wouldn't necessarily buy your argument as to why PCs have more viruses - but that isn't the point - PCs do have much more trouble with viruses - for whatever reason. If your argument is correct, and Macs become more numerous, then the Mac advantage will decline, but for now the virus argument stands unrefuted by your counterargument.

Having used all 3 common platforms fairly extensively for a wide range of tasks, I'd have to say I loathe, despise and downright hate Mac, Windows and Linux pretty much in equal measure at this point.

One major hurdle for Macs is that they really need to court more developers, both large and independent, so that more software is available for their platform, but that won't be happening anytime soon for a variety of reasons. On a related note, how heavily proprietary the Mac world is... strikes me as quite a difficulty, shall we say. Microsoft is bad enough, in terms of that kind of thing. Both companies are trying to sell computers essentially as a single product, and they want control over what "extras" you buy/download and plug into it. But I digress.

While part of the malware problems on the PC are not necessarily due to Microsoft's corporate corner-cutting, the Idiot User can only be blamed so far. Speaking as someone familiar with software, in security terms, Windows is - and likely always will be to some degree - fairly permeable. It has improved, but Windows was never designed with stuff like the Internet in mind.

Anyways, full-scale software development has only been going on for about 2 decades... it'll be awhile before humans get the hang of it. Prior to the takeoff of the electronic age a few decades ago, the most complicated user interface the average person saw was a static panel with a few knobs and buttons.

So what's surprising isn't that people have problems working smoothly with computer technologies; the real surprise is that this stuff is working for the Average Joe at all. Think about how long it took humanity to develop its other tools and infrastructure and practical arts (centuries, generally), and compare that to our progress with Information Technology! Pretty impressive for a species largely populated with superstitious monkeys.

However, as a software developer, often the design, implementation or usability flaws I see on any given platform are enough to make an adult human cry. I hope we grow into this technology soon!

In the meantime, take your Mac propaganda and shove it where the sun don't shine. ;)

If I could have one super hero power, it would be the ability to go around cramming people's Macs up their asses. Maybe THEN they'd get over themselves? I have two PCs-- an almost 4 yr old HP laptop and a Compaq desktop that's over 6 yrs old. No firewall (except the router), no antivirus software, no problems. The only costs I've had were to upgrade the desktop to XP & install extra RAM. Do you really think I care if the market value for these two is probably about $50 combined? Who buys computers for their RESALE value????
And by the way, I would upgrade Dzwonka's opinion of Bill Gates from Mr. Rogers to fucking saint. What that man has been doing with his money since stepping away from MS is an incredible inspiration. And all mention of these things c.o.n.s.p.i.c.u.o.s.l.y. absent from certain websites I know......

These "arguments" are always such fun.

I would upgrade Dzwonka's opinion of Bill Gates from Mr. Rogers to fucking saint.

Giving the money to worthy causes is wonderful, but have you considered where the money came from? Microsoft's business practises are hardly "saintly"... I'd have to pick somewhere between "dubious" and "illegal and incredibly abusive".

Also, Steve Ballmer eats babies and is most assuredly both evil and insane.

Lastly, I cannot take seriously any movement whose leaders and representatives constantly wear poncy black (often turtleneck) shirts. :D

Whee! I was going to leave a quick snarky comment about not joining in religious arguments when i opened the comments and found my PC co-religionists had preceded me here! Macs are nice toys and indeed are generally good enough for who they're for, but trust me... the whole media-tool rationalization for using them died at least ten years ago, and there has been no good reason for anyone to buy one besides loyalty, faith, and familiarity since then. In the old days we found the marketing people liked them, and they've had a good run in academia because of a school give-away program that was every bit as cynical as the first free shot of heroin outside the playground. Tomorrow ANDROID is to be released and the iPhone will go the way of the Mac, just another silly proprietary toy. Have I mentioned that Satan lives in Cupertino?

Frenetic: relax, it was only a "by the way" follow-up to Dzwonka, not a MS-is-better-than-Apple argument.... But, I'm curious, though-- to whose business practices are you comparing Microsoft's? The Mom & Pop General Store down the street?
If the research and public health improvements that his money is aimed at advancing end up making some measureable dent in malaria, TB, diarrheal disease and the like that the ends justify the means in this case. After all, being sentenced to deal with Windows bugs year after year because the company you work for fell prey to the monopolistic practices of big evil Microsoft isn't quite the same predicament as having to choose between giving your baby your HIV-infected breast milk or formula reconstituted with Cholera-infected river water.

Frenetic: relax, it was only a "by the way" follow-up to Dzwonka, not a MS-is-better-than-Apple argument

Its not a question of "vs Apple". And anyways, the whole thing is delightfully tongue-in-cheek for me. Like I said in my first post, I hate Macs, Windows and Linux in fairly equal measure.

But you may have a point that bribing corrupt governments and defrauding the moronic American consumer (fucking over an entire market and an entire technological revolution in the process) and using a portion of the money to try and save lives is not necessarily as purely evil as it could be.

Yeah, I'll consider a Mac once it's a viable platform for video games. There's really no contest in that sense.