Come on people! They didn't do it, they probably just let it happen.

NANCY PELOSI SHOT DEAD!

WASHINGTON, D.C.—Nancy Pelosi was shot dead earlier today during a meeting with President George W. Bush. The President didn't fire the shot, he just let it happen.

I can only guess what would have happened it someone in the Bull O'Really show's audience started to make a lot of noise like this. I'm thinking that person would have been "tased" if he or she were lucky, or hit with a sedation dart if not.

Or do the shows on the political right require the showing of an RNC card or a brain scan report showing a flat line to get in the door?

http://boskolives.wordpress.com/

I think that "cows" remark is the only time Bill Maher has said something witty enough to make me laugh.

The Latin bit was a nice, erudite touch!

He looked like a moron in that clip. He shouted like a tough guy about how there's no security, then proceeded to go down and try to fit his hand between the security guards currently escorting the heckler out, to give him a little shove on his back. Wow. We're all impressed by your toughness, Bill.

How nice to see exactly what all the fuss was about. I, for one, tend to think that a controlled demolition is not that unlikely - but the gov't didn't do it - too incompetent.

Or what ever. Let's just say that 9-11 was a very bad day.

I'm sorry, but "conspiracy' nutballs need to understand. It's not that the rest of us dont get it, we just look at you for the morons that you are. You "controlled demolition" types can't just be happy that the Bush administration was smart enough to use 9/11 to their advantage, they had to f'ing make it happen.

I sure hope Mayer wasn't one of those guys who gave Kerry such a hard time about a heckler.

This happened at UofA in Tucson. We saw Michael Moore a few years ago at the stadium there. The hecklers were more than a nuisance. I swear they strategically placed themselves throughout, so that when one group was escorted out for chanting loudly and disrupting him, another would take up the chant. There were four or five groups.

I have to consider each Maher clip individually, because he's quite capable of being a consummate prick. This time, however, he handled the situation exactly right.

So... JFK was killed by people sponsored by the US. Bin Laden and a bunch of his friends were trained by the CIA to fight the Russians.

And then it's a conspiracy when you're suggesting there's something fishy going on when the government insists on a story that doesn't add up, and suggests we should all move on (to Iraq, or something).

I mean, whooee, welcome, crackpot lane. Where is my tinfoil- cap: I need to protect myself from government mind- control!

Sheesh.

People believe in conspiracy theories for the same reason they believe in religion: they are scared of the idea of a random world; they want it to make sense, be fair, and orderly...

Doesn't make much sense when a lifelong, complete and utter loser can murder the most powerful man in the world, just like that.

Doesn't make much sense when a bunch of primitive screwheads can launch multiple, coordinated hijackings and murder thousands of people.

Ye-es. Same problem you turn up against when questioning whether the government has it's shit together.

Funny thing.

I thought they should have tazed these morons after I watched this again. They are not stating any clear argument. And I dont care much for Bill Mahr, but I 100% support him shutting down these morons who interrupt his show thinking in some f'ed up way it makes them look better.

Either way, 9/11 provided the wanted event that the neocons among others needed. It was the opportunity of the lifetime.

It's sad that conspiracy theorists have muddied this issue. The evidence supporting these ideas is rife across the internet and no where can you find a defence for the conspiracy claims. The fact remains there is unanswered questions which have yet to be defended.

What is to come of our society if these claims are indeed correct? In the interests of protecting a democratic society I think I'd rather not know!

We can help these people!

I've read a few 9/11 conspiracy web sites (to my horror I found out my brother was taking some of their stuff seriously so I had to investigate). (I live in the DC area so I was not prone to believing their ideas.) What I found was that the conspiracy theorists are predators. They misinform and cast doubt for people to latch onto for some sort of higher or hidden or deeper meaning. I had the unfortunate opportunity to sit next to a guy on a plane that believed in some of the conspiracy stuff. He regurgitated some of the stuff he had read. I wasn't educated enough at the time to refute his ideas, but thanks go to Norm for reposting the Popular Mechanics article. One of the items the plane dude recalled was that the whole in the Pentagon was only 16' in diameter....too small for a jet fuselage. Well there was a 16' hole in the Pentagon, but what the conspiracy theorist that gave the plane dude this information failed to mention that next to the 16' hole (where the plane engine went through) there was a thirty foot hole (where the plane went through). David St. Hubbins was not correct when he said, "I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn't believe anything."

Don't be prey. (by the way, the reason I have good faith in the Popular Mechanics article is precisely because of the whole in the Pentagon analysis, which helped explain how the Pentagon looked to me on that terrible day)(also by the way, I have a deep personal loathing of GWBush since I voted against him in 1994 for Governor of Texas).

http://www.911blogger.com/node/10025 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4675077383139148549 http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

Before you label us all conspirators, which is a slanderous way of labeling alternative thinking. Have you looked at the evidence collected and facts? Have you read the reports issued by FEMA and the 9-11 Commission?

Do you really think inhaling smoke doesn't have a negative effect on your body and lungs?

Do you associate authority with truthfulness?

It's hard to think outside the TV Land preception when they keep us in the disconnected bubble. Life is about expanding your own personal strength and developing your own preceptions, uninfluenced.

When you take a stepback, as if you were reading it in a history book, the 9/11 (Emergency, call 9-1-1!) day of events and what took place after, there are many unanswered questions that nobody seems to care about. I understand the emotions generated on that day, and that is exactly what they were after. Our memory of that day when we watched it over and over on TV or in real-life, you can even call a branding of "Terrorism!". We've associated Terrorism now with the emotions of the events of 9/11. They've created this perfect perception of freedom, and they slander us as "conspiracy theorists" when all we theorists are doing is taking a rational look at the day of events as they unfolded on 9/11. I would say that this is the message of onegoodmove.org, rational thinking.

Most people in TV Land would be uncomfortable thinking about things like this because it weights them down and they don't want to think about it.

This is very similar to the situation presented in the Matrix, do you live on/in ignorance (and potentially bliss) or do you lead what Aristotle called "the examined life"?

"Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more."

Red pill or Blue pill, and clearly most people are taking the blue pill living a life consisting of habits, of things we believe we know, we are comfortable and do not need the truth.

Really? Then explain to me, what about Building number 7? It didn't get hit by a plane yet it came down just like the other two even though the fires were small. What about that? Call me a nut but I have to question the questions that are there.

This is nothing like "The Matrix". The fact that you are taking a complicated real-life event and distilling it through the beaker of a Hollywood action movie should be reason enough to discount this drivel. But you push on, irritatingly, siting a snippet of expert witness here and a clip from a news story there, and unfortunately you get the "Loose Change" clowns ending up on an otherwise good program "Democracy Now". http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203&mode=thread&tid=25 The most annoying thing about these so-called truthers is that they say "keep an open mind" or "do the research", but when challenged, they immediately blame the messenger.

..sorry. Are we talking about the conspiracy theorists, or the government support societies now?

Conspiracy toadies look into chaos and it becomes their roarschact blot to color in with their own paranoid fantasies. Sometimes they'll touch on something intriguing but the overarching tendency is that, in their small-person-trying-to-be-big zeal, they cannot filter out the bullshit, so they shoot themselves in the foot every time. I am, however, grateful that I discovered the hilarious covert footage of the Bohemian Club via one of their websites. That kept me riveted for the better part of a day.

The philosophical questions asked of from the movie can be applied to this current day situation.

If you don't see the comparison I'm making, then I'm not going to force upon you. But this isn't the issue.

The main issue is of questioning everything. You're getting told from different "sources" of their truth. It seems like their different "sources" but wait, can't it all be coming for the same mouth? Human beings have the inept ability to hold different points of views and make informed decisions about them. Why do we get so closed and offensive as soon as you touch on a serious argument, it's like a nerve we touch, and we can't believe something outside our comfort zone. Take religion, or 9/11, people just get angry when discussing it and shut down their minds. The overall message of the bible I agree with, but I don't agree with the interpretive-issues that contradict the Bibles overall teachings, same with 9/11 I completely agree that it happened, but I question the motives of which it was carried out.

So what that the WTCs towers were the Worlds first buildings constructed of steel and concrete EVER to be fall/be pulverized from "fire damage". I didn't come to the conspiracy conclusion over night, but instead just being told what to believe I came to my own conclusions.

"Things are not as they appear. NBC is owned by General Electric, ABC by Disney, CBS by Viacom, and CNN is part of a huge AOL TimeWarner conglomerate. Most of our newspapers, magazines, and publishing houses are owned -- and manipulated -- by gigantic international corporations. Our media is part of the corporatocracy."

        -Confessions of a Economic Hit man - John Perkins

I'm shooting the messenger because the messenger isn't speaking of truth.

To understand the scope of the questions being asked, it is important to understand the "prisons without bars" they have created for us.

Again I ask does authority equal truth?

People believe what the Bible says to be truth, people believe what the Corporations say to be true, people believe what the Government says to be true.

An example, on opening your eyes, have you been to the grocery store and can't find what your looking for, when you ask the clerk he points right to where you were looking and you'd might reply "Can't see for looking!"

Apply that to the Chamber of the House of Representatives, where the State of the Union address' is made. Look at the stage, on both sides of it you'll see it, right there for all of us to see, fasces.

-Pictures I could find of during State of the Union address and publicly taken pictures of the stage at the House of Representatives

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2446/00000201ms0.jpg http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8126/fascesusacongress2cs8.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8330/housechamberdj0.jpg http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5008/jfkdeliversstateoftheunfy0.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6278/reagandeliversstateofthfm2.jpg

The symbol of Fascism an authoritarian government that considers the individuals and their needs meaningless to the interests of the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fasces.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Why on earth would our Congress have Fascist symbolism right in front of our faces as if we won't notice?

What significance does that play? Nothing right? How do they treat the middle class?

You should be able enough to remember enough injustice to our citizens that their care towards us is insignificant.

Heaven vs Hell Good vs Bad Light vs Dark Truth vs Fear is todays current battle.

Breathing the dust at ground zero was incredibly harmful. Breathing any dust is harmful, saw dust, etc. especially in large amounts. The dust at ground zero was full of asbestos. Airborne dust asbestos. The worst. When Guliani says it wasn't harmful I don't include that in the 9/11 conspiracy theories. By definition I would say any and all 9/11 conspiracies would be stuff that happened leading up to and during the actual response. The "dust deniers" happened days after. Also, as far as believing our leaders. I don't. I'm also one of the first to say wtf when Bush said 9/11 was an act of war. The whole war on terror is a farce. Bin Laden declared war on the US in 1992, did we call it a war then? No, but Clinton actively fought him and fought him hard (perhaps harder than Bush is now....hmmmmm....).

Basically, I agree with you micma. I simply believe, however, that trying to read more into 9/11 (a bunch of Saudis hijacking planes as part of an Al Qaeda attack - masterminded by a former contractor for the CIA - on a target they had attacked before - and flying them into buildings), distracts from the needed effort of exposing and fighting all the terrible and wrong things Bush has done in response.

As far as your links go, I'm don't think I should get into it here.

I’ve been resisting the urge to get involved in this particular 9/11-conspiracy discussion, probably to Norm’s satisfaction. LOL For one thing, sans additional evidence, it’s pointless to rehash the points yet again. But then I came across this story: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/102207dnmetholyland.1878fd716.html

The additional evidence is all around. The hard part is finding it. In a nutshell, what this story says is that a judge declared a mistrial in the case against The Holy Land Foundation, a Muslim-based charity that had been accused of financing the terrorist organization, Hamas. But as usual, there’s much, much more to the story. Remember Judith Miller? She’s the New York Times “reporter” who leaked Valerie Plame’s identity as a NOC, and then went to jail for refusing to divulge her sources. Before this story came to light, however, Miller was already under investigation for allegedly alerting members of the Holy Land Foundation of an impending US Customs raid. Federal prosecutors contend that this warning allowed Holy Land personnel enough time to destroy crucial evidence. But wait! There’s more! Today, after informing the judge that they had arrived at a unanimous decision, three members of the jury staged a bizarre revolt in the courtroom. Click the link to find out what happened.

Needless to say, there is no mention of Judith Miller in the article. Click here to get up to speed on her involvement: http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/7/1148/62336

What’s this have to do with 9/11, you ask? Terrorist financing is at the heart of our “war on terror,” but it gets little press coverage because whenever reporters follow the money trail, it leads to unsettling discoveries regarding who is really behind global terrorism. Google Abu Nidal, BCCI and Riggs Bank for some riveting LeCarre-esque reading. Anyway, like Judith Miller, another central figure in this scandal evades mention in the article: a Boston area software company called Ptech with links to several large banks, not to mention the State Department and other government agencies. In 2002, based on a tip from whistleblower, Indira Singh, US Customs officials found links between Ptech and suspected terrorist financiers, including the Holy Land Foundation. Click here for deets: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a0502singh#a0502singh

Anyway, whenever these discussions take place, conspiracy detractors make the simplistic argument that Bush is too stupid, or the govt. is too incompetent to carry out something like 9/11, which is true. Bush did not perpetrate 9/11. The perpetrators are members of warring factions of the underground – religious fanatics with links to powerful banks, organized crime figures with axes to grind or debts to repay, drug lords with money to launder, undercover agents with divided loyalties…As Ishmael Reed wrote in Mumbo Jumbo, “The history of the world is the history of the warfare between secret societies.”

Of course, Maher is smart enough to know about all this stuff, but he fears the tinfoil hat label and enjoys his well-paying gig as a smart ass pundit, so he has adopted the conveniently (self) righteous anti-conspiracy posture.

Bill Maher is a pretty funny comedian (when he works on his material). Off the cuff I think he is a little better than jay Leno. They comment on the same mundane tabloid stuff, but Maher tends to address some of the larger issues. I like his show because from time to time a celebrity will say something that makes me think these people are insightful and actually care. You get to see the candid side of people that usually just play characters, or you see more personality from some of these news people that otherwise just go through the motions of what has become modern news. When I do hear something interesting Bill unfailingly chimes in to steer HIS show onto other topics. I don’t blame him for THAT.

I'm tired of being talked down to by the mainstream media, my government, and arrogant pricks like Maher. If it really takes guerilla tactics like this to get people thinking, to draw attention to the lies we've been fed, I look forward to more of this kind of civil disobedience.

This sort of thing doesn’t promote debate, but it can bring awareness. Others can make their own judgments. Maher just dismisses the questions entirely. People in the truth movement may be a little single minded, but at least they are acting on their principles.

Really? Then explain to me, what about Building number 7? It didn't get hit by a plane yet it came down just like the other two even though the fires were small. What about that? Call me a nut but I have to question the questions that are there.<<

Groan Well, long story short, it was right across the street from the towers and was severely damaged and structurally compromised by falling debris and the kinetic energy, and since people were more interested in saving lives instead of a building, was allowed to fall since structural engineers noted it was buckling because of it's odd construction and damage.

Listen you single minded wack jobs, this building 7 crap has been explained in detail, just because some of you cant be bothered to actually listen to real experts, dont make it sound like there is some mystery about it.

Consider your messenger, Mr Gage. I watched the movie of his presentation and was aghast at the false choices (here is a movie of a controlled demolition of a building that has no structural similarities to the WTC. OMG it fell down like the WTC. WTC is a controlled demo), the "I'm not an expert, but..." lines and the "audience is the jury" statements. As a structural engineer, I could point out the specific fallacies of the presentation, such as: the implied symmetry of the WTC7 column plan that leads you down the gilded path his sideways failure statement. The mechanics of collapse depend on the location of the center of mass, the way weakened steel columns fail (a column loaded to 80% of capacity - a rough percentage of an efficient design - will obey the law of gravity when weakened - there is no rigidity in the column to "kick" to the side) and the individual loading of the columns, which in this building were not perfectly symmetrical as he would have you believe. He then talks about injuring his leg and falling to the side. A completely false analogy. 911-dreamers: take some steel design classes, frame analysis classes and work in an engineering office or in heavy construction for a while before appointing yourself to the jury. Take Mr. Gage with you.

Maher is a tool, and showed its true ugly face here. However, this is routine for those who followed the show all these years, as Maher has never hidden where his loyalty was regarding that particular debate. Those who, so conveniently, label conspiracy theorist everybody just doubting about the farce that the 9/11 commission or Popular Mechanics were, are the same deluded fool who would have put their blinded faith in the Warren Comission report. And they are the ones who need confort to continue to live in denial. Any doubt raised and the entire housecard that their life is would collapse!

The irony is, if people like Norm and Bill Maher simply ignored the issue, the "truthers" would find another target (like Danny Boneduce).

I happen to think Maher is intentionally baiting these people. He made a point to mock the "truthers" on last week's show*

• I watch this "on demand" so I may be off by a week or two

A completely false analogy. 911-dreamers: take some steel design classes, frame analysis classes and work in an engineering office or in heavy construction for a while before appointing yourself to the jury. Take Mr. Gage with you.

My steel design classes are what made me call bullshit halfway through Loose Change, as persuasive as it was.

Maher is a tool, and showed its true ugly face here. However, this is routine for those who followed the show all these years, as Maher has never hidden where his loyalty was regarding that particular debate.

This isn't a debate in the video. Maybe the dude screaming in the audience should "youtube" his arguements and evidence and post them, rather than ruining someone else's show.

If I hacked into Onegoodmove and replaced every article with links to Intelligent Design websites, everyone would want me "thrown the hell out" too, and I should be. Bill's show is a type of property for him, and screaming over the top of it is hardly a way to explain your arguements, and bill did what he should have. Yeah, jumping into the crowd was a bit much, but his security needed a kick in their ass, and i'm sure a new security team will be hired since this has happened the last few weeks.

I found the debate about Maher's original remarks about conspiracy nuts quite fascinating and just dropped around to see if the nuts came back here after Bill's show.Clearly there are large and untapped markets for the latest generation of anti psychotic drugs. I think I just may make an investment in GlaxoSmithKline.

Maher should be able to kick out as many disruptive fans as he wants to, but acting the tough guy (he's obviously not) and shouting down someone who's being dragged out by five bouncers is a bit cowardly.

It's also perfectly correct to state that the audience is supposed to be quiet and listen, but a bit sycophantic for the audience to applaud wildly at this point. "Yay! Let's continue to listen to the debate quietly, only interrupting with applause and shouts of approval!"

A quote from new conspiracy theorist:

Could Bill Maher have planted "9/11 Conspiracy Believers" in his own audience?

This is nothing like "The Matrix". The fact that you are taking a complicated real-life event and distilling it through the beaker of a Hollywood action movie should be reason enough to discount this drivel.

this is everything like The Matrix, which is not just a Hollywood action movie but a very power story that is almost entirely based on Gnostic mythology.

'The matrix is everywhere,' informs Morpheus, 'It is all around us. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you to the truth . . .'

To a significant degree, the basic Gnostic myth parallels the plot of The Matrix, with respect to both the problem that humans face as well as the solution. Like Sophia, we conceived an offspring out of our own pride, as Morpheus explains: "We marveled at our own magnificence as we gave birth to A.I." This offspring of ours, however, like Yaldabaoth is malformed (matter without spirit?). Morpheus describes A.I. as "a singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines," a fitting parallel for the Gnostic Creator God of the archons (angels) and the illusory material world. A.I. creates the matrix, a computer simulation that is "a prison for your mind." Thus, Yaldabaoth/ A.I. traps humankind in a material prison that does not represent ultimate reality, as Morpheus explains to Neo: "As long as the matrix exists, the human race will never be free."

The film also echoes the metaphorical language employed by Gnostics. The Nag Hammadi texts describe the fundamental human problem in metaphorical terms of blindness, sleep, ignorance, dreams and darkness / night, while the solution is stated in terms of seeing, waking, knowledge (gnosis), waking from dreams and light / day.

Marco:

A better question- why would Bill Maher do such a thing?

Potential answer: to generate buzz.

Potential answer: he is a CIA operative being paid to suppress a few underemployed protesters.

To be clear: I'm sure Maher is being genuine in regards to 9/11, but he seems smart enough to leverage some controversy now and again.

Let's not forget- this man dated Ann Coulter for awhile. Whatever has diseased her mind may very well be contagious.

Perhaps another race-specific bio-weapon by the illuminatti?

The mind boggles.

Another question begging us is why the Masons, and by default the LDS, have a hand in it as well. And why would comedian be in cahoots with the Knights Templar?

Another reason why we should monitor our paranoid schizophrenics—for more important conspiracies.

I believe the most prevalent question is, Why does Jesus drive a rickshaw?

Somebody needs to do Bill a big favor and forward him the Operation Northwoods documents.

He is bewildered that anyone could possibly believe the government would do such a thing, Operations Northwoods documents would fix that one up quickly for him, no?

Pfft. Those documents are just part of the conspiracy, you nut. Otherwise the government wouldn't have leaked them to the public, see? It's just all part of the great plan. All hail saint Ronald and the missile defence system!

Listen you single minded wack jobs, this building 7 crap has been explained in detail, just because some of you cant be bothered to actually listen to real experts, dont make it sound like there is some mystery about it.

Oh really? Could you please enlighten me as to where this "Building 7 Crap" has been explained? It wasn't in the 9/11 report. I read it from cover to cover. They didn't explain building 7 at all. It was a controlled demo. Anyone can see that.

It was a controlled demo. Anyone can see that.

It's not exactly obvious, though, is it. I mean, it's a long way between demanding a more thorough 911 commission before the subject is closed - and there are many reasons to do this for perfectly legitimate security reasons, as well as since the government seems less than eager to investigate itself - and between declaring, based on how suspicious the circumstances appear, that a specific scenario occurred.

That we just don't know. But is that really a good reason not to ask questions?