I really need to start watching this show. The "what's up?" was priceless.

The bit about "they're taking anyone these days" is true.

But the "What's up?" bit is unrealistic -- or at the very least, extremely improbable. Anyone with that attitude will immediately have a ton of bricks dropped on them, and if their attitudes don't change, they'll be removed -- maybe not immediately -- maybe they'll segregate the guy from the rest, and try to break him. But they're not gonna have a guy running around with that attitude. Because that kinda shit is seriously detrimental to the training process.

"joeyjoejoe," chill out, it's just a tv program

I don't understand why he joined the army if he didn't want to be there. O_o The rest was pretty funny, though.

For the record, that was Dzwonka who wrote the rant about the "what's up?" I was the one who said it was funny. Improbable, but funny.

I can't believe the army is really like this. Maybe it isn't, but if it is, that's pretty messed up. I get that they need soldiers to have blind obedience, but it still means they're treating other human beings like shit, which is lousy.

Of course, Andy was drafted on the show, so that's also unrealistic. But, as Ciaran said, it's just a TV show.

I think "detrimental to the training process" sums up completely why I would have made a horrible soldier. I intellectually understand that you don't want a soldier that second-guesses and order based on their own perception of 'dumb-assedness' because that can get a bunch of people killed, and I doubt I would be any good at suspending my brain in emulsion when it counted. "The training" would probably be lost on me completely.

Of course, 'dumb-ass' orders can get you killed too.

Hey, as long as we're talking about the military, does anyone else find it odd that "The Generals", as GW or the media refers to them, are given WAY too much credit for calling it "like it is"? As a military-industrial-complex-skeptical, MASH-watching post-Veit Nam 70's generation kid, I don't seem to remember "The Generals" given too much credibility giving the press ANYTHING that could be construed as objective or "realistic".

What has changed? Now officials from the military are weighed against the Bush administration as a supposed 'counterbalance' to keep the neo-cons 'honest'. Healthy skepticism for what comes out of the mouths of Those In Khaki seems to have vanished completely.

"The Generals" have an agenda and the relationship between what a General says and "like it is" is non-existent. Sorting between the propaganda and deception is what a free press is for, assuming there is such a thing anymore.

Oh, right. Sorry. I was being nostalgic.

The PBS program Now did an interesting program a few weeks ago. They reported on the 20,000 soldiers that have gone AWOL since the beginning of the Iraq war. It reported on how soldiers often desire to get the service, but then want to leave after experiencing combat. They felt the war is wrong and wanted to leave according to their conscience.

I really couldn't understand why they joined if they never wanted to see combat. But, at the same time, I'm thinking, who am I to judge till I've been in their boots.

Again, intellectually, the idea of 'serving' and 'giving back' to your country are compelling notions. But the muddiness of our foreign policies, the 'facts on the ground' are so troubling this (the mass AWOL movement) really doesn't surprise me.

Americans are culturally more removed from other nations and largely unaware of other people's daily lives, and what does an 18 yr old know about anything, anyway? Suddenly there are dead civilians, your friends being wounded... and suddenly black and white are reduced to greys, greys, greys.

Do you remember those old Marine recruitment commercials, with the chessboard knights? Iraq is no Mordor, no war against orcs or even Nazis. As a thinking person, even one in uniform, how can you watch GW spit into a microphone and have your chest swell with pride, fortified in your conviction? C'mon, I smell the bullshit. Surely some of these kids do, too.

I think it's interesting when people attempt to base an argument on a fictional TV show. Particularly when the TV show's position is based on the same argument. It's a remarkable form of circular logic.

I've never watched this show - it's too wanna-be cool about how it's about weeeeeeeed, man!! - but I imagine if the character is being called to active duty, he enlisted in the military. Don't want to go to war? Don't join the military. This glorification of opportunistic cowardice is pretty reprehensible.

Tea4T...

Seriously? Who exactly is basing their argument on the TV show? No one that I can see. Obviously it is a comedy. Obviously it is fiction. Any good fiction (and comedy) is going to make a comment or express an opinion about reality. It doesn't matter if the situation is plausible or not, that is hardly the point. I would expect anyone that graduated high school to at least know that.

And if you have never watched the show how do you know what it wants to be anyway?

I didn't realize that writing interesting characters was such a reprehensible act. This guy comes across as completely apathetic toward his situation, not cowardly.

I think it's interesting when people attempt to base an argument on a fictional TV show. Particularly when the TV show's position is based on the same argument. It's a remarkable form of circular logic.

Isn't it fun to criticize people then turn around and do exactly the same thing you criticized.

I've never watched this show - it's too wanna-be cool about how it's about weeeeeeeed, man!! - but I imagine if the character is being called to active duty, he enlisted in the military. Don't want to go to war? Don't join the military. This glorification of opportunistic cowardice is pretty reprehensible.

Who the hell is glorifying what you call opportunistic cowardice?

Stop the knee-jerk polarizing bullshit and strawman arguments, it just makes you look stupid.

What I found funny was the part right after this. The "All-American" guy takes orders like he's suppose to, and gets killed in spectacular way.

You guys are wasting your time responding to t4t (aka Average Joe). I gave up doing that realizing that it is an excercise in futility.

Nothing that you can say will make any difference whatsoever to someone like that.

What Jo Ann said.

There are many ways you can get called up without a draft.

Sign up to ROTC in college pre 2000 to get cheaper tuition and you enter the reserve for 10 or 15 years (I can't remember which) bingo your 1997 decision to play weekend warrior gets you sent to Iraq for 2 years. Similar with National Guard. You join a decade ago for family tradition reasons and to be useful if there is an emergency (like a flood or something) and now your off to Iraq.

There are a lot of people who have reserve obligations left over from quite a while ago and I believe that selective reactivations have taken place out to twenty years. Good grief in twenty years you could be a completely different person too who you were when you joined the reserve.

I'm in Aus, so it will be two years before that episode of weeds get's here but I would be surprised if it wasn't a reserve call up situation. Of course it could just be for as part of a draft. It is a fairly 'fantastic' comedy and may just be pushing some points.

Nothing that you can say will make any difference whatsoever to someone like that.

Note that "someone like that" means someone much smarter and more perceptive than you.

How is Canada, Jo Ann?

Jebus Paul, twenty years? I look back a week ago and think to myself, what the hell prompted me to do that? I don't have the consistent level of enthusiasm to ever sign my life to anything, damn, I'm second-guessing even posting this...

I was in the Army for twelve years. I joined during the first gulf war and got out in 2003. When anyone wonders what our soldiers think about this war I usually point out that their opinions are as varied as they are among the general populace. As for being reactivated after your active service obligation is completed, it only happens up to 6 years after getting out. We sign 8 year contracts so if you do 4 years active you could get a call 3 years and 11 months after being a 'inactive' civilian. I've seen it happen at 2 years out with certain military specialties. When they come in they are usually pretty pissed (I'd be too). Some are so fat they can't fit into a uniform.

"But the "What's up?" bit is unrealistic"

It's a comedy, dude.

But, no, I wouldn't do well in the armed forces either because I don't think any asshole should talk to me like that, regardless of his rank.

No one should put up with that shit. Discipline doesn't have to involve talking to people that way either.

I teach English in Seoul and not having much experience with the military I have found my interaction with the multitude that are here very enlightening.

I would say half are complete dork-knobs. They literally get off on telling you about how many people they have killed. They won't even consider a reasoned argument about politics or war. I have had several graphically tell me about people they have killed while we share a beer. One guy wanted to beat up my friend because he was wearing a red shirt. Apparently his superior officer told him it was his mission that night.

The other half though are thoughtful and down to earth for the most part. They can wrap their heads around a complex issue and not quickly jump to the conclusion that anyone who isn't red white and blue through and through must be unAmerican.

I certainly don't judge the men and women in uniform. If I had grown up in a situation where I had less options in life, then free tuition would seem like a viable option. I just don't wanna hear how you actually enjoy killing people. Thats when my sympathy for you drops out.

Of course I have no idea what war would do to my own mental stability and lets hope it stays that way.

One thing about that character in the show is that he'll say and do almost anything to get laid and that's how he ended up joining the reserves. He never showed up and when he finally got caught for possession he went "into the system" and quickly recieved a letter calling him to active service.

Oh, and TeafortheTillerman is what we in the blogging community like to call a troll. When trolls post on a website, everything they post is bullshit. This is because their goal of posting is not to argue a point but to incite members of the targeted blogging community to anger.

They can typically be indentified by either completely nonsensical statements disguised as arguments...

"I think it's interesting when people attempt to base an argument on a fictional TV show. Particularly when the TV show's position is based on the same argument. It's a remarkable form of circular logic."

... or by declarations of excessive arrogance.

"Note that "someone like that" means someone much smarter and more perceptive than you."

Now it may be tempting to argue with a troll but I find it much better to call them on their bullshit and expose their true motives. In this case maybe he just needed a little attention.

That was funny.....I think as some others mentioned I believe, it is extremely unlikely that a man would say "what's up" to his CO without expecting to....well yes, he might actually die.....still an' all...the dialogue between the two kids was realistic and well-done.

Viscerally, it feel less like a comedy about the military and more like a comedy feeding off other comedies about the military. 'Like it's twice-removed from reality for quick and easy digestion. Having said that, it looks like it has areas of potential as well. Where's Jim Nabors when you need him?

About moving to Canada. I think it would be a good idea for the blue states to join together with Canada and leave the red(neck) states to have their own little fundamentalist religious warmongering country. They would then be free to outlaw abortion, put all of the Prius-driving latté drinking pot-smoking hippies in jail, and pay their CEOs exhorbitant salaries.

The rest of us could live in a free country with universal health care and secular principles.

We are such a divided country that I think we'd all be a lot happier if we would just partion ourselves into two separate countries - red and blue.

The purple people could decided which system that they prefer. However, most purple people or those who claim to be independents are generally conservative in nature, so they would no doubt choose to join the red states.

partion - That should be partition..

And on second thought, there would be no hippies to jail as the hippies would all be in the blue states.

Ah... this is but a dream though... sigh...

Here's another idea.

We are such a divided country that I think we'd all be a lot happier if we would just partion ourselves into two separate countries - red and blue.
-- Jo Anne

Agreed.

The US is basically like a house, with the blue states being the informed, intelligent, reasonable and productive members of the family -- good neighbors, nice people -- living on the main floor. But they have to suffer when the neighbors get angry and throw bricks through the living room window -- because the red states are the retarded cousins, living in the basement, who keeps shooting at the neighbors with their air-rifles. The retards in the basement keep shooting at the neighbors because some of them have different skin color, and different religions from theirs.

The ironic thing is, you'd think the red staters would quit it with the war mongering, because it's always their kids who end up going to war -- the poor, the underprivileged. But nope -- their sense of "patriotism" out-trumps their love of their own children. Ie., their hatred is stronger than their love of their own children.

Which incidentally is exactly the problem with muslim fundamentalists. They have some very profound similarities...

Regarding partitioning of the US, I seriously hope you're joking. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly wouldn't want to be forced to move somewhere because of my political views (in my case, I probably wouldn't, but I'm trying to think about others who would.) The concept reeks just a little too much of contentration camps.

I've never watched this show - it's too wanna-be cool about how it's about weeeeeeeed, man!! - but I imagine if the character is being called to active duty, he enlisted in the military. Don't want to go to war? Don't join the military. This glorification of opportunistic cowardice is pretty reprehensible.

well maybe you should take a look at the show, then. 1) it's not glorifying weed as in "wow, this is so fun, let's all go get high". Overall the show is dark-humor, but especially now in the 3rd season it's showing a lot of the ups and downs (a LOT of downs) of getting in over your head with dealing drugs.

2) here's where you can see how this guy ended up in the Army. pretty damned funny, really. http://youtube.com/watch?v=6iu-kfoWnqM

3) relax, it's a damned show on premium cable....

i watched the first two seasons in one sitting. Thank Gore for the internets.

Also, it's just a clever and funny show, i don't see why everyone has to be all cynical and start all these bullshit arguments about this and that. If you think the premise is lame shut up and watch something else.

I have been in the reserves over 20 years now. I started off as an enlisted soldier but soon went to officer candidate school for the simple fact that I vowed never to let an ignorant abusive prick, like the rather realistic drill sergeant protrayed in the show, be able to hold rank and control over me. I also did it to make sure that I would not have to renounce my right to chose not to serve. You see, it's an odd thing. Enlisted personnel have signed an 8-year commitment to be deployed and even called-up after they have fullfilled their term of service. Officers, on the other hand, unless they have received scholarships through college ROTC or gotten tuition reimbursement for classes they took after becoming officers have the right to resign their commissions at any time. I was in high school during the Reagan years, after he had reinstated draft registration. My logic was that Reagan was millitarilly a loose cannon (pun intended) and the only way I could avoid service in a future conflict that I might not support was to be in the system in a status where I could resign and had no long-term obligation. Oddly enough, I loved being an officer and have always taken it very seriously. I was never called up for the first gulf war and while I fully expected to be called up for the current debacle, a call-up I would have obeyed, that never happened. My specialty is nuclear biological and chemical weapons. Since they knew early on that Saddam didn't have them, they never called. So, I did an odd thing. I switched from active-reserve (doing weekend duty)status to semi-inactive duty (I only do 2 weeks per year now). I am not bound to be involuntarilly called and sent over because I never took a penny from the army for my education. I switched to the semi-inactive reserves (IMA) because I wanted to go to Iraq and see it for myself. I worked 2 years all over the country as a contracts manager for a food service company. I tool a year off and taught English in Thailand but this Friday I am returning to Iraq as a contractor for another year. Drill sergeants are ruthless bastards but generally it is all an act, designed to whip troops into shape. In fact, they are not supposed to even use profanity to soldiers. They still do, sometimes, but this sergeant never could have gotten away with talking to trainees like he did right in front of that Colonel. Officers tend to really be gentlemen and ladies in their treatment of troops. A colonel would not be offended by a trainee saying "what's up" to him. He would be corrected (vigorously) by the sergeant for not using proper military courtesey, "What's up Sir?" but odds are he would also be given a minor leadership role after that for not being an automaton and blindly follwing orders without asking questions. The military really doesn't want robots. As the soldiers become, on average, better and better educated, the leadership has accepted that they may indeed be asked to explain themselves, or clarify orders. Generally this is well accepted. People who ask for clarification on orders are the ones who don't become participants in things like the Mi Lai Massacre.

The ironic thing is, you'd think the red staters would quit it with the war mongering, because it's always their kids who end up going to war -- the poor, the underprivileged. But nope -- their sense of "patriotism" out-trumps their love of their own children. Ie., their hatred is stronger than their love of their own children.

Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach military age. Then they think you're a just right, just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. Pro-life..Pro-life..

ahem... Someone has got some splaining to do

Kelly, I read your post with some interest. As a former enlistee (in a portion of the army in which the chance I'd see combat was next to zero), I never realized that officers could resign at any time.

As for this:

"Drill sergeants are ruthless bastards but generally it is all an act, designed to whip troops into shape. In fact, they are not supposed to even use profanity to soldiers. They still do, sometimes, but this sergeant never could have gotten away with talking to trainees like he did right in front of that Colonel. Officers tend to really be gentlemen and ladies in their treatment of troops. A colonel would not be offended by a trainee saying "what's up" to him. He would be corrected (vigorously) by the sergeant for not using proper military courtesy, "What's up Sir?" but odds are he would also be given a minor leadership role after that for not being an automaton and blindly following orders without asking questions. The military really doesn't want robots."

All I can say is that your experience was different than mine. My drill sergeants - male and female - were able to put together strings of cuss words I never realized went together! I was out of college at the time, and found this part of basic laughable. Many of the 18 year olds were so malleable and took everything to heart, although some were more experiences in life.

As for the "not wanting robots" deal, are you sure? While yes, they always teach to you to question what you would consider "bad" or "ill-fated" orders, so long as you go through the chain of command, and do what you're told if that is the bottom line - i.e., be the good soldier. As army basic is structured, the 1st 3 weeks are the break down period, the next 3 are solidifying the unit as one, and the lst 2 are designed to bring up the group to perform well and confidently together. Uniformity is the key: as close to a robot as possible. We can only hope that the robot still has a conscience (many do - whew!).

Anyway - my 2 cents. the basic training clip brought back memories. Since there's no chance of a repeat for me, it was all worth a laugh or 5.

Hi Gypsy Sister, I went through basic in 1987 at Ft. Bliss Texas. It actually wasn't too many years after they stopped allowing DIs to hit troops and the non-profanity thing was very new to the system. Basically it came off as no cussing when there's an officer around. My DIs were good at using semi-profane language in ways that sounded as obscene as the real thing. For example, they would not call you "a bunch of assholes" but they would say "ass-wipes" (a vulgar but not out of bounds reference to toilet paper and we all knew what they really wanted to say.). From what I understand now, they are not even allowed to give PT as a punishment anymore. If the DI wants you to drop and give them 20 push-ups, they have to get down themselves and do them with you. We used to call it "pushing Texas to hell". My ex-wife was the XO of a basic training company and when one of their troops physically assaulted the CO during a counseling session, the MPs were called and they arrested the trainee. When he was being taken out of the barracks, the troops were formed-up outside for rumor control about what had happened in the CO's office. Because the trainee, in handcuffs, was walked past this formation by the MPs as they took him to the patrol car, he was able to successfully beat the assaulting an officer charge (actually the charge was dropped) because his lawyer charged that he had been "cruelly paraded in front of the troops while cuffed.". Not only did the army drop it case and give him an honerable discharge, the CO was subsequently relieved of command and his career was destroyed. Things are very different from the army I came into.

By the way, an officer can resign their commission if they have no service obligation remaining, likf from tuition assistance. You can't do it once you are activated on orders but you can do it when you are alerted but have not received orders yet.

thanks for the response, Kelly. Ft. Bliss must've followed the regs more closely than Dix.

I went through basic in 88 and the phrase "goddamn mother-fucking Jesus Christ" came up during guard duty training. We were also told that you weren't supposed to do PT as punishment, but once our platoon's flag was furled (oh yeah; guess who carried that flag?), we were pretty much fair game for any drill sergeant, including push ups with packs on our backs. I did my duty and requested permission to stop - or something along those lines. Needless to say, I was refused, but not given more punishment. Later one of my platoon members told me I had balls; whatever. Knowing that you can get in trouble once you end your request with "Drill Sergeant" doesn't exactly require alot of chutzpah.

That's too bad about the CO situation. Someone definitely got himself a good lawyer. At least the assaulter is no longer in the service.

I liked the clip, it was funny.

To commenters who said it was unrealistic: well, yeah duh. If you watch some more of Weeds sometime, you will see that it fits the rest of the series fine. Weeds is really nothing more than a platform for social commentary. And that's cool, but the bad part is it's so totally one-sided it's not ever going to convince someone of anything that they didn't already believe.

Kinda funny though. shrug

-- Furry cows moo and decompress.