Fuck the "Jena 6" -- or to be precise, fuck those cowardly, racist thugs. Five of them got away with a slap on the wrist after committing what clearly is a racially motivated hate crime -- yet none of the six where charged so.

Getting into a fight might land you with a misdemeanor charge for simple assault, but when you proceed to stand on the head and neck of an UNCONSCIOUS person, and continue attacking him, you are committing a felony -- that's aggravated assault with the clear and obvious intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

I'm not defending those racist morons who hung the nooses from that tree -- it was a despicable and idiotic thing to do. But it's no worse than neo-nazis marching through a neighborhood populated by holocaust survivors -- a case which the ACLU actually took on for the neo-nazis. It certainly is no worse than Fred Phelps and his demented lot celebrating the death of a gay man who died at the hands of self-confessed homophobes. And it sure as hell isn't any worse than the display of intimidation and hatred that is regularly made in front of abortion clinics in this country.

And all these cases are protected as free speech.

I cannot see how anyone who actually knows the fact of this case can have any sympathy for these violent scumbags -- unless you're basically just another racist who hate white people.

I see, so this is reverse discrimination. We should hate them, because they finally succumbed and took out their frustrations on a white guy. Not only should we hate them, but we should appease that hate, try them for murder, then string em up. "Git out the pitchforks honey, we got work to do!"

The problem with sentiments like those is they do not account for 'the facts of the case'. This is one of a string of incidents that gained national attention with the noose in the tree. Even THAT incident is just one in a string of events that are indicative of the oppressive atmosphere the minorities have been enduring since who knows when.

A group of white students thought it would be ok to hang a noose from a tree after some black students asked to be able to share the shade of the tree. How seriously misguided are the attitudes in this town where students think this is ok? How skewed are the perspectives there when the DA thinks it is ok to tell black students he can end their lives with a stroke of his pen?

What these six did was wrong, and should be treated as a crime, with decisions based on rational judgments, not ravings from the foam slinging mouths of people bent on stringing up the bad guys at high noon. It should be considered that these are not isolated incidents, but indicators of a deep rift in the town that has festered for years, probably decades, kept alive by people that never really took racial reforms in this country seriously.

While I think that the Circus that Jackson and Sharpton made out of the Jana case last week only hurt the situation, the article posted made me think a little broader about this situation.

If the school authorities would have dealt with the initial situation of the intimidation and indirect threats to the black students, the 6 students wouldn't have had to take the situation into their own hands. Granted, they shouldn't have taken the situation into their own hands Lord of the Flies style, but would the situation have gone this far if the initial problem would have been addressed by the school authorities?

I'm not defending either side, the nooses should have been cause for suspension/expulsion from the school, and standing on anybody's neck and kicking them while unconsious should be repremanded accordingly. The black students could have found a more rational way to deal with this problem. I'm sure if they called up the media whore Sharpton after the nooses, he'd be down there fighting for their cause for free.

I see, so this is reverse discrimination. We should hate them, because they finally succumbed and took out their frustrations on a white guy...

When white bigots attack blacks, there is an almost unanimous condemnation -- but when the reverse happens, you got Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson crawling out of the woodwork. Don't you see a double standard here?

I agree that these aren't isolated incidents, but what they truly indicate, is a culture in black communities for a persistent, exalted status as a victim -- no matter what.

If YOUR son was assaulted like this, by six kids -- purely on account of the color of his skin -- for something that he never did, would your opinions be the same?

And I want to make sure that you understand the nature of this assault. This guy was kicked and stomped on -- not just while he was down, but while unconscious. That is very, very serious stuff.

Thank you, Dzwonka, for making the situation clear.

Steve's attitude is a clear case of Politically Correct muddleheadedness. Of course there is wrong on both sides, but to directly compare intimidation (the nooses) with attempted murder is naive to say the least.

Wow. I've come to expect better from Norm's readers.

The facts include a school grounds beating that followed months of hostility and push/pull bullshit from both sides of a racially divided high school community. The District Attorney tried to intimidate the black kids ("With one stroke of my pen I can end your life forever") and later the black kids acted out with a school yard beating that bloodied the nose and blackened the eye of a white kid. All the comments about "kicking him while unconscious," and so forth are hysterical and unsupported. The kid got a whupping. He hurt for a few days after that, but he was off his back that very night for the class ring ceremony. If these kids actually attempted murder they were a sorry half dozen incompetents.

No, the issue here has little to do with the inter-racial hassles on the school ground and everything to do with the disparity in justice administration in that community. I think the DA should be removed from office and disbarred for his self aggrandizing attitude and malfeasance.

The Jena Six did wrong. How will we sort it out and require them to suffer the consequences for their actions when justice in Jena is so binary that a bloody nose and a blackened eye constitute attempted murder (if done black against white). That DA got all of us mixed up about what happened, but the statistic gets registered as another black against white felony charge.

All the comments about "kicking him while unconscious," and so forth are hysterical and unsupported

No, they're not. They're supported by witnesses, the police report, and the account of the victim. You simply dismiss the brutality of the beating - in the same breath that you dismiss the beating with "The kid got a wuppin'!" - because downplaying the seriousness of the attack allows you to continue to pretend the attackers are somehow also victims.

No, the issue here has little to do with the inter-racial hassles on the school ground and everything to do with the disparity in justice administration in that community.

Again, you misrepresent the situation to fit your predetermined conclusion. There is no 'disparity in justice' because there is no comparable crime for you to make such an assessment. If six white kids ganged up on and brutally beat a black kid, and they were all allowed to go free with no punishment, then you'd have a case. But that's not what happened.

The facts are that this was a long give-and-take process of two race groups baiting each other and having small clashes, culminating in a big clash. People like you have simply latched onto two key things: the nooses hung from the tree, and the fact that the victim of the beating didn't die. No death, no foul? That's just indicative of how much you're willing to infantilize the attackers because of your racial prejudice.

And that's the real problem here: the general issue of white liberal guilt and how some very politically savvy black 'leaders' play on that to boost their own fame and power. Rallying in support of kids who, in response to being goaded, tried to beat a person to death. Only in liberal America.

Oh, and something else that was entirely missed in this whole ridiculous media frenzy: the attempted murder charges were dropped due to lack of evidence. If any of the people getting in a self-righteous tizzy about this actually knew the first thing about criminal proceedings, they'd know that in emotionally charged and/or high profile cases the prosecutor always goes for the biggest indictment.

Was attempted murder a justified charge? If you think ganging up on, beating, kicking, and stomping on an unconscious person is reckless disregard for their life, then yes. If you think that's just a "wuppin'", well ... you might just be a redneck.

In any case, such issues are what the courts are for. Not the papers. Not Al fucking Sharpton.

As a vocal opponent of "hate crime" laws, I feel it is my duty to chime in here and prove I am no coward of controversy.

For hanging the noose, I say assault and harassment, 5-10 years, realistically knowing they will plea-out and serve about 6 months. Missing a semester of school feels "fair" to me.

For the "Jena Six" I say Attempted Manslaughter in the 1st Degree (Class-C violent felony), 10-25 years, plead-out to some form of aggravated assault, serve 8 years, with the inevitable civil case to handle the financial issue of recovery and rehabilitation for the victim. Eight years, plus severe financial penalties, will ensure that the "Jena Six" think long and hard before using violence to express political views again; feels "fair" to me.

Here we have a textbook case of a "hate crime" (read: racially-motivated crime) and a clear example of the total failure of federally-mandated "racial sensitivity". This University's failure to respond to such an obvious and abhorrent expression of hate (noose in tree) is simply inexcusable. However, as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson clearly demonstrate, such legislation only institutionalizes racism, and by providing "undue advantages", only antagonizes dangerous behaviors from racist lunatics.

By creating laws to separate "blacks and whites" we have created a social acceptance of self-segregation. From OJ Simpson to the "Jena 6", we have divided ourselves into a "white versus black" paradigm, rather than embrace the true color-blind co-acceptance demanded by ML King, Jr.

It is not only accepted, but expected, that the "Jena 6" will face a biased trial and sentence. It is not only accepted, but expected, that any parties defended by Al Sharpton will be black. These are ugly prejudices, forced upon us by our own history. The racism of both blacks and whites is very much alive today, and this poisonous ideology is only fed by the legal designation of "hate crime".

To hate and act violently against another human being is wrong, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or haircut.

Our laws should reflect this; our people should embrace this.

Thank you for your consideration.

That was too wordy. Let me try in a "soundbite":

"Why I oppose "Hate Crime" Laws"

If ever a group of people deserved to be charged of a hate crime, it was the "Jena Six". However, they were black, and thus, immune from the perceived intent of these racist laws. They are at best ineffective, and at worst, a source of lingering prejudice in our society.

/end ranting

I like to think of it as "informed anger" rather than "white liberal guilt." A huge chunk of my tax dollar goes to incarcerate and control young black men because of your fear, Tillerman. The white kid went doggo, played possum, laid there feigning unconsciousness until mommy or the teacher could give him a hand. They picked him up, dusted him off and then sent him to the emergency room... wasted trip. As for the redneck slur, you bet I'm a redneck. But I'm not a candy-ass white segregationist coward urging incompetent and amoral district attorneys to throw the book at black juveniles so I won't see as many of them on the street. Like you. regarding Sharpton, I think we have agreement there. Mostly, I don't like his haircut or his opportunism.

For hanging the noose, I say assault and harassment, 5-10 years, realistically knowing they will plea-out and serve about 6 months. Missing a semester of school feels "fair" to me.

I've gotta take issue with this one, seeing as how the government is constitutionally obliged to protect your right to put on a KKK rally, or display neo-Nazi paraphernalia... Schools that are part of the government have to do a balancing act and frequently violates students' right to simply keep order. Also, this is simply a good life lesson: if you do such things, you're likely to find yourself out of a job -- because a private company is not bound to uphold your rights to freedom of speech, or any other rights (although they may do so simply because of social pressure).

Hence, while I think the students who hung the nooses up deserved more punishment than being removed to another school for a month and a 2-week in-school detention, I cannot see how they should be given 5 to 10 in jail...

(As emotionally charged as this issue is, I'm somewhat impressed that this thread hasn't descended into a complete train-wreck -- well, not yet) :)

The white kid went doggo, played possum, laid there feigning unconsciousness until mommy or the teacher could give him a hand.

Come on, this is not how you contribute to a constructive debate. You are making ASSUMPTIONS -- always a bad idea.

A person can easily be knocked unconscious with FAR fewer "bruises and scratches" than this kid had.

Normally if you're are knocked unconscious they keep you in the hospital for more than a couple of hours for observation, quite often overnight. The fact that they didn't raises questions. Of course both sides have reasons to present a one-sided view.

I like to think of it as "informed anger" rather than "white liberal guilt." A huge chunk of my tax dollar goes to incarcerate and control young black men because of your fear.

Silly me, here I thought they were 'incarcerated and controlled' because they committed a crime. Is this the kind of stuff you and your all-white friends tell each other while sipping lattes at Starbucks?

Silly you indeed, Tillerman. The issue that I'm trying to draw attention to is the disparity in the administration of justice that results in the lopsided statistic of ten times as many black men in prison per capita as white men. What that number should or might be with equal administration of justice I do not know. I believe that comparative poverty and cultural factors (from single parent homes to hard drugs) would leave the number unbalanced even if other factors were equalized. Among the other factors is the disparity in charging and prosecuting black men compared to white men. I think the behavior of the DA in the Jena Six matters is an example of this disparate treatment.

So, silly you. The incarceration and control for committing a crime happens with greater frequency to young black men. It seems likely that young white men have lesser charges in similar circumstances, and more reduced charges, settlements, and dismissals. We're researching that, and when I have the data I'll either confirm what I've asserted here, or withdraw the assertion.

What have you got against my friends and our choice of coffees? (Hey! I was in London a couple of weeks ago and a Starbucks latte there costs as much in pounds as it does in dollars here! Talk about a disparity!)

Normally if you're are knocked unconscious they keep you in the hospital for more than a couple of hours for observation, quite often overnight.

In this case, the kid wanted to attend his graduation party, so he obviously was pretty motivated to get out of there (hell, in my youth I once walked out an hour after having my ankle cut open and a surgical nail splint removed from it, because I wanted to go to a party. I ended up spending the weekend in bed of course, in agony once the anesthetics wore off). Also, the kid said he didn't want his attackers the pleasure of knowing that they'd scared him off -- which is another thing I can completely sympathize with.

Also, since I'm already bringing up personal experiences, I wanna share one more...

I was once mugged -- an English style mugging; they take nothing, but they beat the living shit out of you. Kinda like soccer hooligans, who chose their victim completely at random. I had never seen, or spoken to these guys before. I had seen or hear of anything like this before, so I thought it was a case of mistaken identity, and kept asking them why they were doing this. It started out very strangely -- they didn't say a single word, and didn't throw a single punch, but simply leaned on me until I fell over. Then, they started kicking...

Some rules of self defense that I learned held that your last ditch defense (talking, running and fighting being the previous ones) is to exaggerate your injuries. That idea went right out the window, cause these boys really put the boot in -- focusing on my back, neck and the back of my head. I truly and sincerely thought that I was going to die. I can't begin to explain what a fucked up, lonely, and desperate feeling that was. I had just graduated college and actually had the plane ticket for home in my pocket -- thinking I had my whole life ahead of me, but instead now I'd die under the boots of some complete strangers. Some complete psychopaths. I can't describe what a nasty experience that was.

I eventually woke up and tried to get away, but they had another go at it. I can't remember if it happened more times than that. I have no idea how long was out either, of course. And there was no chance in hell that these animals would ever be brought to justice for what they did.

I had headaches, blurred vision, and a hell of a pain in my jaw. But I still looked a helluva lot better than the kid in that picture.

This is why I absolutely fucking hate and despise the ignorant, flippant and downright callous comments about this kid merely being giving a "thrashing," and that he was "playing possum."

Could it be? Could it be that I've been made privy to yet another paradigm that you "absolutely fucking hate", Dzwonka? Let me wipe the sweat from my brow.

Your story has nothing to do with the Jena 6 case; astonishingly, though, the case provided you with another opportunity to talk about yourself and flail about like a drunken boxer at the supposed ignorance of commenters with whom you don't agree.

That a white kid was beaten up by a group of black kids in a 90% white school in the rural South where the principal, superintendant, and town DA had failed repeatedly to get off their asses to address (no, really address) the increasingly dangerous situation that had been brewing for months is about the least surprising thing in the world. Take a cornered, wounded mountain lion and have people line up to poke him with sticks one at a time, and eventually... what do you get? Think that's a stupid analogy? Think again. I grew up in a school just like that. 95% white, 5% black, rural South, etc. etc. The black kids mostly kept to themselves-- hunkered down like box turtles for their own safety. Throw in some testosterone starting in middle school and a little more in high school? Well, pretty soon the little hourglass that's counting down the very finite number of times a kid's going to pretend he didn't hear some white boy coughing 'nigger' under his breath while passing in the hallway is getting down to the last few grains of sand.

Whoa -- cornered box turtles, wounded mountain lions being poked with sticks, and little hourglasses getting down to the last few grains of sand -- sounds like those poor oppressed guys deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for not actually murdering that little evil scumbag cracker!

You truly are a living, breathing stereotype aren'tcha...

Dzwonka:

Touche. How is it I find myself arguing against freedom of speech? Boy, I'm glad no one is basing policy on my posts.

All the same, I think the noose falls under the "fire in a crowded theater" clause. I hate to admit this, mind you, as I fancy myself one of those Voltaire "defend to the death" types.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JenaSix#The.22whitetree.22incident

According to this wiki article, the DA sounds like a real piece of work. Perhaps we can get him on a depraved indifference charge, eh?

In all fairness, I am probably being too harsh on the noose "pranksters", as I am burdened by the 20/20 hindsight of the violence it eventually inspired. Criminal issues aside, that the university allowed these students to return to class within a semester is simply deplorable.

As far as I am concerned, Justin Barker was a victim of circumstances beyond his control- circumstances that the school administration should, and could, have mitigated by addressing some very legitimate concerns by black students.

Just an ugly, ugly case. It looks to me as though everyone (besides Mr. Barker) acted like animals. The whole lot ought be ashamed.

Zaphod, I don't think the noose thing falls under the shouting fire clause. I do think, however, there are some things you just don't do if you are a well rounded human being with a little integrity. Such a person would not do this, knowing that it is well within one's right to do so, but also knowing their are more effective ways to make a statement.

There are also better ways to make a point other than beating the shit out of someone. The six that beat the kid resorted to physical violence, and should be punished accordingly. Both incidences should be a wake up call to those that, as you said, could and should have relieved some of the tension long before either incident.

That is the real problem, of course, that things were allowed to go as far as they did, that the attitude within the town in general was such that students thought they could speak up and assert some assumed right to keep certain students from standing under a tree. The school administration, and those with that are supposed to have a little more maturity in the town, allowed such a social climate. The sad part is it likely will not change.

Hanging a noose from a tree is very threatening. It is a threat to kill someone.

It makes me feel ill to think that there was a "white tree", and it's utterly disgusting that a kid (who was found to have KKK tatooed on his chest) was driving around in a pickup truck with nooses hanging from it to taunt the protestors.

I am a bit shocked that more people don't find this behavior disgusting. And it's depressing that this kind of behavior still exists today in the U.S. Very shameful!

I agree with Clownfish 100%.

Here's a website that has a lot of good information on this case.

You truly are a living, breathing stereotype aren'tcha...

What was Clownfish stereotyping? He was describing a situation exactly as it is. If only he was stereotyping and this wasn't true.

The problem we have come to now, and the point I was trying to belabor in my earlier post, was that the Sharpton/Jackson part of the equasion has only hurt the issue. Now you have people with "white guilt" (or whatever the Eff you want to call it) defending the beating of a student, and you have the other side defending intimidation as "free speech", because this has become such a devisive issue.

1) The DA sounds incompetent at his job, and should be kicked out of office.

2) The intimidation of blacks at the school needs to end, and anyone who does such things needs to be punished accordingly

3) The Jena 6 should be punished also, but take into account the climate of the situation. This is what the trial is for, to assess the "severity" of the beating by interviewing the doctors, why they let the kid out of the hospital so quickly, by taking into the account all of the facts of the case.

There is a lot of misinformation flying around the "internets" (playing possum, stomping on throats), and I think it's only going to get worse from here on out. The lines have been drawn, the misinformation is out there, people will believe the stuff that agrees with their view of the situation.

How is it I find myself arguing against freedom of speech?
-- Zaphod

That's simple. There are only ever -- ever -- two reasons for that. 1) You don't believe in free speech -- in which case you are a fascist; 2) You don't understand it -- which does not make you a fascist, but this doesn't matter, because your ignorance makes you behave like one. Walk like a duck...

All the same, I think the noose falls under the "fire in a crowded theater" clause.

Absolute rubbish. First off, you must understand that this is not necessarily a literal example -- there has to be a serious, genuine risk that this really will cause a stampede.

Secondly, this notion is meant to protect the OTHER party from harm -- not the guy who is expressing himself. Also (and I hate to repeat myself, but you obviously didn't read this, and you obviously don't know about it) it is based on the ninth amendment -- that you cannot exercise a right, if this violates someone else's right. And you do NOT have a right to never be pissed off by something. You do NOT have a right to never be offended by something.

You DO have a right to not live in fear, but these kids PLAYED with the nooses -- including the black kids. They swung from them, and even put their heads through them. The school took them down because they were a safety hazard.

No one were scared by them. But a few thugs got pissed off because of it -- and there is a WORLD of difference between the two.

You might as well say that expressing a pro-choice opinion is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theater because it will make pro-lifers assault you. Do you understand it now?

I am a bit shocked that more people don't find this behavior disgusting.
-- Jo Anne

I DO find it disgusting. It's completely repugnant. And I am 100% certain that every contributor to this board does so too. But if you do not defend most fervently the speech with which you most fervently disagree, you do not understand the concept of free speech.

Free speech doesn't mean "You can say whatever you like, unless someone finds it disgusting." This, surely you can understand, and agree with?

What was Clownfish stereotyping? He was describing a situation exactly as it is.

Sorry, but you misread that post. I did not say he was engaging in stereotyping -- I said he was behaving like a stereotype: The stereotypical, hand-wringing, guilt-ridden white liberal who tries to be politically correct by making excuses for violent behavior.

The lines have been drawn, the misinformation is out there, people will believe the stuff that agrees with their view of the situation.

-- Willey Sadly, I agree -- but only as far as the general population goes.

I hope, and genuinely believe that most people on this blog are capable of seeing past their emotional attachment to their knee-jerk views, and make out the actual facts of the case, and come to the correct conclusion. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be in this thread...

Free speech doesn't mean "You can say whatever you like, unless someone finds it disgusting." This, surely you can understand, and agree with?

Indeed, I agree with that statement. However, hanging a noose from the "white tree" is more than disgusting. It is threatening.

Dzwonka, I salute you as a fellow patriot. I sincerely enjoy our disagreements.

However, hanging a noose from the "white tree" is more than disgusting. It is threatening.

Oh, come on! I already covered that: Having neo-Nazis march through a neighborhood populated by Holocaust survivors is a helluva lot more threatening, and that IS allowed.

You also have to consider how realistic a threat this is -- how many highschool lynchings have they had recently?

Zaphod, thank you, but I don't consider myself a patriot. I think some things about this country (like most countries) is great, and worth defending. Free speech is pretty close to the top of my list.

So if having neo-Nazis march through a neighborhood populated by Holocaust survivors is a helluva lot more threatening, then you agree that hanging a noose from the 'white' tree is in fact 'threatening' and not just a 'childish prank'.

The fact that there have not 'yet' been any lynchings does not mean that it is not threatening.

So I guess the question is, how threatening does something have to be in order to not be considered "free speech".

If I were a black kid, and a minority, I would feel threatended by a noose hanging from a "white tree".

If I were attending a school where the majority of the students were black and they had a "black tree" and hung a similar symbol from the tree (whatever that might be!), I would indeed feel frightened.

And if there was no threat, then why were the students who hung the noose suspended for three days?

What about if someone shot a bullet though someone's sacred text and subsequently flushed it down the jon?

Erick, remember that that guy stole those Korans from the people who owned them, and then defaced them. Frankly, If he had simply bought copies of the book and flushed them, whether shooting them or not, I'd be totally fine with that. But he broke into the other students rooms and stole them. That's what I take issue with.

As for this whole Jena 6 incident, how about accountability for EVERYBODY. It seems like everyone's asking for just one side to take all the blame. I'll admit that I only know what I've read, and I realize I can't accept everything that I've read as truth, but the consensus is that these 6 boys ganged up and beat up on another boy. They should be punished, and it shouldn't matter what anybody's skin color is.

And yes, implying that someone is going to be lynched for sitting under a tree, whether jokingly or otherwise, is very serious. You simply don't do stuff like that, it's COMMON SENSE. But unless someone is trying to actually hang you, or physically harm you otherwise, you do not have a right to strike them.

And you also don't threaten to take someone's life as casually as the DA did. He really should know better, and I hope the bar association can punish him somehow for his behavior.

Erick, remember that that guy stole those Korans from the people who owned them, and then defaced them. Frankly, If he had simply bought copies of the book and flushed them, whether shooting them or not, I'd be totally fine with that. But he broke into the other students rooms and stole them. That's what I take issue with.

As for this whole Jena 6 incident, how about accountability for EVERYBODY. It seems like everyone's asking for just one side to take all the blame. I'll admit that I only know what I've read, and I realize I can't accept everything that I've read as truth, but the consensus is that these 6 boys ganged up and beat up on another boy. They should be punished, and it shouldn't matter what anybody's skin color is.

And yes, implying that someone is going to be lynched for sitting under a tree, whether jokingly or otherwise, is very serious. You simply don't do stuff like that, it's COMMON SENSE. But unless someone is trying to actually hang you, or physically harm you otherwise, you do not have a right to strike them.

And you also don't threaten to take someone's life as casually as the DA did. He really should know better, and I hope the bar association can punish him somehow for his behavior.

Dzwonka: I consider a patriot without nationalism a patriot all the same. Most nationalists are anti-patriot these days.

After careful consideration, I have to side with the fascists on this one. In my opinion, considering the context of the "white tree", the noose was an act of harassment, not free speech.

Dzwonka: I consider a patriot without nationalism a patriot all the same. Most nationalists are anti-patriot these days.

After careful consideration, I have to side with the fascists on this one. In my opinion, considering the context of the "white tree", the noose was an act of harassment, not free speech.

Dzwonka: I consider a patriot without nationalism a patriot all the same. Most nationalists are anti-patriot these days.

After careful consideration, I have to side with the fascists on this one. In my opinion, considering the context of the "white tree", the noose was an act of harassment, not free speech.

So if having neo-Nazis march through a neighborhood populated by Holocaust survivors is a helluva lot more threatening, then you agree that hanging a noose from the 'white' tree is in fact 'threatening' and not just a 'childish prank'. ... So I guess the question is, how threatening does something have to be in order to not be considered "free speech". -- Jo Anne

I don't know how threatening something has to be, in order to be considered threatening enough to violate the 9th amendment. I'm saying the neo-Nazi scenario is clearly worse than this, and if that one was considered legal, then this must also be considered legal. Very simple.

And if there was no threat, then why were the students who hung the noose suspended for three days?

Because people were offended by it, and the whole thing caused a disturbance in the school's environment. In a made-for-TV movie, maybe they'd create a constructive debate about the positive and negative sides of free speech. The right to free speech is violated all the time. Free speech is abused all the time. The world ain't perfect.

Erick, remember that that guy stole those Korans from the people who owned them, and then defaced them. -- Doobie

Excellent point! It's like the case where some idiot kids decided to set fire to an American flag -- their neighbor's. Freedom of expression doesn't give you the right to destroy other people's property. It sounds like the simplest point in the world, but it's amazing how many don't understand it.

I do wish that you'd all read up on the case, before commenting on it... I'm seeing a lot of references to the "white" tree -- there wasn't one. That was just mentioned in the initial, hysterical reports, and it was cleared up later: everyone sat under that tree.

Also, there wasn't "a noose." And more importantly, there wasn't three nooses. There were two. Three nooses holds a specific, symbolic meaning.

The problem most people had with the Koran thing was that it was considered a Hate crime, not a destruction of property.

Also, there wasn't "a noose." And more importantly, there wasn't three nooses. There were two. Three nooses holds a specific, symbolic meaning.

? Are you saying that a single noose is different from two nooses? Are you saying that there was no noose at all? What is the symbolism of three nooses as opposed to two? Where do you recommend we "read up" on the case? I can't seem to find clear information from anyone.

Ok, to answer my own questions:

There is no consensus on the number of nooses. Some report 2, some report 3. 3 is a sign for the KKK. Most of Dz's rebuttals fall from a single Yahoo.com story (about the severity, the number of nooses, the interconnectedness of the noose incident and the beatings). Each story seems to differ, so to say for certain that it was 2 nooses is a bit presumptuous.

Is 2 nooses less threatening than 3?

From reading up on this, and knowledge of past cases, this sounds a lot like a white community protecting their own.

From reading up on this, and knowledge of past cases, this sounds a lot like a white community protecting their own.

I agree. It's about equal treatment under the law. The response to what the whites did was too little and to what the blacks did too much.

Attempted murder!? Spare me, please. Assault at most. And besides, they're minors.

Well, Mychal (sp) Bell finally is out on bail. I wonder whether he's learned his lesson. I also wonder what lesson that might be:

1) Attacking someone and kicking while they are unconscious on the ground is wrong -- even if his skin color is the same as someone who did something you found offensive.

2) It's totally cool -- because just as long as you're black, and the victim is white, Jackson and Sharpton will make a circus out of it and turn you into a martyr.

King worked to prevent whites from getting away with assaulting blacks. Now his predecessors work to help blacks get away with assaulting whites. Wonder if that was part of his dream?

Oh noooooes! The Klan is at it again, oppressing poor, innocent young black men: Mychal Bell is back in the slammer again.

Where is your Al Sharpton now?

Oh, I thought you were going to be linking this story. But nah, nooses=/= racism, right?