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Gonzo Disses Dad

Bill Maher and company on Alberto Gonzales and his Dad.




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In the UK net migration is imperative for economic growth, and yet so many people think that it's a bad thing.

The problem is that the media, especially tabloid newspapers, propagate so much FUD around immigration issues.

US immigration policy is totally insane - a couple of years ago I was offered a great job in Chicago but in the end we gave up because the process for work visas would have probably taken 2-3 years or more!

I would like to see the US just drop all of its immigration barriers - perhaps first by making a pact with the EU - the economic boost of such a move would be truly astounding!

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The ONLY Americans that have ANY right to bitch and moan and complain and be wary of immigration are the Native American Indians. For them things didn't work out so well last time. Everyone else should quit their yapping.

I didn't read or listen to Gonzales's swan song – who needs to hear another asshole telling us about wanting to spend more time with his family - but I really doubt that the asshole meant the phrase 'my worst days were better than my father's best days' in the way Maher of Ambassador Bodine interpreted it. Maher is absolutely correct in saying that his father's best days were light-years better than Gonzales's best days insofar as accomplishments were concerned. But I strongly suspect that Gonzales was attempting to put on airs of humility by making comparisons between the trials and tribulations that he and his father faced - his father's having been much more difficult. In other words, he was more likely to have meant 'I may have been terribly abused by these godless liberals and even disloyal republicans in the end, but my crucifixion was not nearly as painful as the one my father endured.'

I live in Kansas so it's nice that these fucks criticize Gonzo's condensation were so quick to say that all of us in the 'heartland' buy into everything they hear.

Stupid hypocrites. It's no wonder so many in 'red' states won't vote Democrat because we'll all still be second class hicks to the self-important, self-imposed intellectuals.

I agree that criticism of Gonzo's profuse sweating is beyond the pale.

Stupid hypocrites. It's no wonder so many in 'red' states won't vote Democrat because we'll all still be second class hicks to the self-important, self-imposed intellectuals.
-- Doug

"Self-imposed intellectuals" -- now, that's a great phrase! Self-proclaimed, I could kinda understand -- but self-imposed? This is pretty much equivalent of that white trash guy standing around with two sings: "Get a brain! Morans!" and "Go USA!"

"It's no wonder so many..." -- no, dude. That really IS a wonder.

What is not a wonder, is that this country is hated around the world, because intellectually deficient shit-fer-brain retards in "red states" elect scumbags into office.

If you want to improve things a little, I suggest you quit worrying that others might consider you an unintelligent fuckwad, and instead try to stop being an unintelligent fuckwad.

And to try to not sneer at someone who is so self-important and self-proclaimed an intellectual, that they can breathe through their noses.

M'kay?

Doug - I think this is as much a speculative discussion as anything else as to why the "heartland" (as you quoted it) votes against its own self-interest - demanding to be slaves to the super-wealthy and mega-corporations.

And, you are showing some level of insecurity because if you listen to them, these same people also long for the open space, nature, traditional family and neighborhoods that might be as much a myth about the "heartland" as the "second class hicks." (You tell us.)

Gonzales's statement just exemplified the new values that Republicans try to give us - that the only good possible is money and power.

But, yes, Doug, by all means, those are the people to follow.

Eh, sorry guys, I have to disagree on this one. This sounds like the kind of thing Republicans usually say when smearing people - misunderstanding a statement in order to smear people.

I'm no fan of Gonzales but his statement clearly meant that he feels that his worst days were nothing compared to the hardships that his father had to go through as a migrant worker. He's expressing respect for his father going through troubling times to raise him.

Gravel nailed it; people become anti-immigrant as soon as they get here. And Bodine is absolutely right; Abu Gonzalez couldnt' be any more insulting to his father. He should admit that many unlucky dudes put up with a lot of crap among his father's generation. As Maher said, his father and none of his father's peers ever legalized torture. They did hard work thanklessly. His father, as long as he isn't a political dictator, is a much better man than Abu Gonzalez.

Dzwonka, apparently you are a fucking moron, or if you prefer, a moran. Just because I live in a Red state doesn't mean that I vote Republican. Of course you must be as stupid as the "morans" on the Bill Maher show who assume they are superior just because they have a larger voting block of Democrats. Maybe if you got out of your bubble once in awhile you wouldn't make the mistake that so many Democrats have made and just dismiss the states as unwinnable.

BTW, self-imposed is the correct usage of a term. I guess it's just in the 'heartland' where we have a larger vocabulary.

http://www.selfknowledge.com/86343.htm

...he feels that his worst days were nothing compared to the hardships that his father had to go through as a migrant worker. He's expressing respect for his father going through troubling times to raise him.

Theowne, I agree - Gonzales was making a statement that was meant to be received by his audience (us) in the just way you've expressed. But I think it was a pose - he wanted to appear as the stoic martyr and is willing to use his father hardships to do it.

Kinda reminds me of Edwards telling us about his dad slaving in the mills to put food on the table and learning to read in the middle of the night watching PBS.

Beyond the pale!

If I were a miller, on a millwheel grinding ...

...I'd not miss my colored blouse and the soft shoe shinings.

BTW, self-imposed is the correct usage of a term. I guess it's just in the 'heartland' where we have a larger vocabulary.
-- Doug

You're more fun than a barrel of monkeys, you are...

When you impose something upon yourself, it means you're undertaking something -- an effort. You can go into a self-imposed exile, or impose a diet or a training regiment upon yourself -- but you cannot self-impose being thin, tall, dumb or smart.

You would of course already have learned this, if you'd actually checked the reference you provided. But learning things is an effort, of course. Self-edumacation is of those efforts which you might consider imposing upon yourself...

And finally, strictly speaking -- what you're having problems with here isn't your vocabulary per se, but your syntax, or diction. You know the correct word or phrase; just not how to use it.

Call me a fucking moron all you like, but please -- Mr. Heartland -- just please, pretty please stop butchering the English language. Not everyone speak it as a native tongue, and your asshattery doesn't make things easier.

M'kay?

I don't know if you can get more to the point than Gravel's comment.

The arguments here are beyond petty, however I'm going to jump in as another "red state" resident to say that this kind of idiotic write off is exactly why democrats have a loose foothold in this area. Republicans campaign here. The people aren't less intelligent, but they're getting a steady diet from the people who actually recognize them as thinking beings. Democrats could have done a lot to improve this. Please feel free to analyze my syntax and diction, I'm sure I've made some errors in every aspect other than my logic.

Doug and blueelm,

You two do have a point, these guys have been insufficiently careful in pointing out that there are lots of Kansans and Texans who are not idiots. While Rahm Emanuel, and Chuck Schumer may not get it, you should be encouraged that Howard Dean does get it:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2006/11/10/dean_dems/

Dean's 50-state strategy paid off for Gov. Tim Kaine and Sen. Jim Webb (with help from George Allen) in Virginia. Dems made gains in Indiana, Idaho, Wyoming, Kentucky and Nebraska, too.

Syngas,

Lots of politicians pull out their stories of humble beginnings - it is practically a requirement. Gonzales's story is more genuine than most. That he chose the occasion of his resignation as Attorney General after he performed as a political hack and after lying his ass off before Congress is what is beyond the pale. Presumably the problems Gonzales' father faced were not mostly of his own making.

Dzwonka, I see you are just one of those types who like to hang around blogs so you can insult people to make yourself feel superior but often make yourself look foolish. Such is your incomprehension in understanding a word in the context it was used. It's probably past your bedtime and your mom needs to wipe your nose. Come back when you grow up and get some wisdom child.

Thanks Tim. I attended one of Dean's meetings in D.C. Unfortunately he wasn't able to show up but we later got to meet with his campaign manager in Ithaca. What he has to offer is basically common sense. Locals know their politics better than someone 1000 miles away.

There have been times when people from out of state came here for activities, like countering Operation Rescue protests, and they just took charge and bossing the veterans around. Needless to say it didn't win them very many friends. It's kinda like America going into a country with a different culture and just assuming that we know what they want and we'll be greeting with flowers and candy. I wonder why that doesn't work.

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A tangent on the Gonzalas subtext here:

I think our immigration policies are as reasonable as any other sovereign nation, which in any case I respect. [But for some reason we're supposed to be different, while turning a blind eye to, say, Mexico's own aggressive prevention of immigration into their southern border.] What's lacking in our policies though is equal application and I find that grossly unfair.

Saying that those who oppose open boarder surges of immigrants are afraid of losing their "white and Christian" majority are painting a very tidy and smarmy bigoted brush --another in an endless series of tiring "gotcha!" snipes. Yes it feels very tingly to bring your public offering to the altar of celebrity skin-deep compassionate hipness but, as in most political battles, the civilian middle takes the fall.

If we allow anarchy-style migration for the sake of feeling good (and what country does this anyway; what school yard sandbox are these myopic ideas coming from ?) will it will yield a nation that has a better appreciation for the Constitution; for lives laid down; and the history of hard-won civil rights, or a population that is just here because it's an arbitrary entitlement? It's like saying, "come in my house, you can piss anywhere and I'll clean it up because I hate myself".

OK, trounce en mass now. Ready... go!

Dzwonka, I see you are just one of those types who like to hang around blogs so you can insult people to make yourself feel superior but often make yourself look foolish. Such is your incomprehension in understanding a word in the context it was used. It's probably past your bedtime and your mom needs to wipe your nose. Come back when you grow up and get some wisdom child.
-- Doug

Well, I guess I'm getting nowhere with this... But I'll give it one more shot.

I hang around intellectually stimulating blogs because I can always learn things from it. Sometimes, I learn things just by reading people's posts. But on other occasions, I engage in an exchange of opinions -- and am proven wrong (which obviously is a bitter pill to swallow -- but in my opinion, well worth it).

You done did done dumb said a dumb thing, you hear? You caint self-impose no intellectualism on nobody!~

As a Hispanic immigrant, I find Alberto González to be the worst of our kind. Every time I see him next to Bush he reminds me of Sancho Panza of Don Quixote…a loyal servant to his master. One thing I never realized is that in all those years under Bush I never saw him give an interview to any of the Spanish networks (it probably happened but I have asked people and hardly anyone remembers him in a Spanish media…radio or tv). This will tell you how much he thinks of us or we think of him I guess.

As for the remarks about his father…I thought they were very condescending. My mother worked very hard in factories under not very ideal conditions to give us a better life. While I am sure that she is happy to see her children own their own homes and have grandkids that go to better schools than her own sons, I doubt that her best working days were any better than my best working days. She has never ever mentioned to me that the key to a happier life is to have a better job but she repeatedly tells me that the key is to always be a good person.

This was an insightful discussion on the topic. Doug, having a discussion about how a statement can be disrespectful and dismissive shouldn't be seen as "those intellectuals being mean".

I just think that this shows that Gonzo's real incentives are the almighty dollar and having power, and not being a good person.

I'm with Theowne. It's a cheap shot. Worse (and for related reasons), it doesn't even come near hitting the midline.

I'm also sympathetic to Doug's point. While I do think on balance those out in the "heartland" are more credulous than their city brothers and sisters, the difference is marginal -- only just big enough to tip the scales in favor of the evildoers. (There are no "red" and "blue" states, only different shades of indigo and violet.) On the other hand, that margin sure is a pisser.

I really find it hard to respect Bill Maher anymore. I like his politcal views, and he was great on politically incorrect.

I think he's a hypocrite though. He sides with Joe Biden when he fucks up his speeches and dismisses it as nothing. But when gonzo says something, that I can't even see it the least bit derogatory to his dad, Bill jumps all over him. I admit this is probably the lowest Bill has gone . . . but I think he's stooped to Fox's level lately on humor and criticism.

I admit this is probably the lowest Bill has gone . . . but I think he's stooped to Fox's level lately on humor and criticism.

How can you possibly compare a comedian to a news organizations -- and one that that promotes itself as "fair and balanced," no less?

Granted, Maher blends his humor with social commentary -- but what comics do not? Should I be disappointed that George Carlin, Bill Hicks, South Park or Robot Chicken aren't/weren't always as upstanding as fox news?

Maher is more than a comedian. He uses humor, very much like a comedian, yes. But he's just as much a political commentator as Pat Buchanan. We look at it as humor, but we laugh because it is irony. He does have higher standards to live by, in my point of view, than Robot Chicken, sorry Dzwonka.

And as he is viewed by the public as a liberal figurehead, and speaks for my ideals, I will criticize him when he is wrong.

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