The twighlight of atheism?

The fact that Dawkins has penned a four-hundred-page book declaring that God is a delusion is itself highly significant. Why is such a book still necessary? Religion was meant to have disappeared years ago. For more than century, leading sociologists, anthropologists, and psychologists have declared that their children would see the dawn of a new era in which the "God delusion" would be left behind for good. Back in the 1960s, they were told that religion was fading away, to be replaced by a secular world. The future was bright -- and godless.

However, religion has made a comeback. It is now such a significant elemt of today's world that it seems strange to think that i twas only a generation ago that its death was foretold with such condience.

Not only is God not "dead", as the German philosophwer Friedrich Nietzsche prematurely proclaimed; he never seems to be more alive.

I know there are multiple typos -- I typed quickly. The message is evident, though.

Responses?

I haven't read Dawkin's God Delusion book yet (though I will, it's by my bed, next to my "The Imitation of Christ" (joke)) or seen this clip (though I will also)... But I wanted to draw attention to an excellent book by Francis Wheen which came out I think in 2004 - "How Mumbo-jumbo Conquered the World: A Short History of Modern Delusions" which covered I think entertainingly much of the same ground...

Despite as much as many of us wish, religion will most likely never disappear completely. There have been numerous occasions throughout history where secularism has risen above the negligible status only to be superseded by religiosity once again a few decades (or perhaps centuries, depending on the case) later.

I'm not sure of the exact ratio, but I think approximately 11% of the world today is non-religious, and of that 11%, a very small percentage actually bother to take on religion or even care to do so. In other words, it's going to be almost impossible to change Earth into a religion/superstition-free planet. Not impossible, but extremely difficult, to say the least. It's like trying to reach 0 by subtracting 5 every second from a number that increases by 7 every second ...or something.

Those are my thoughts, anyway.

Hmm... Well, I guess trying to reach 0 in that manner is actually impossible, but you get the idea. Instead of 7, a fluctuation between 4 and 7. How's that.

I watched some of the documentary last night. two thumbs up!

What was interesting was the double blind test to show if water divining works. Despite proving that it doesn't work those that were part of the test explained why the test was false.

Enemies of Reason, yet another show that will never be shown in America. Gotta protect the superstitious religious folks from reason lest they experience an emotional breakdown from living a lie.

Jonathan: Man! This is really bugging me: where is that lifted from? The remark at the end on Nietzsche is what seemed most salient. Between you and me: who are you cribbing your talking points from? Is it McGrath?

As much as I hate to admit it, I think the curse of religion will always remain with us. We may have evolved -- biologically, as well as socially -- to a point where we are are quite simply stuck. Our intellectual faculties can take us no further.

The fact is, human beings are only partially rational. Our ability for intellectual reasoning is the one thing that sets us apart from all other creatures on this planet, and it gives us an enormous advantage -- but most people have no respect for it, and are only marginally aware of how important it is.

As thick as two shorts planks. Awesome. More insults from Richard!

I'm really pleased that he turns now his attention to astrology, esoterism, ghost healing – all the modern superstitions that are around. Because that whole religion debate is very much an American debate. Europeans tend to look down on the USA and its raving evangelics – and forget that Europe's esoteric tendencies are almost as bad.

Oh come on.

We are in an increasingly complex and complicate time, that is changing rapidly. What do you expect? People are freaked out by globalization. They want answers, not better questions. It will settle down, religion is just a quick fix for the generations caught in the lurch.

Religion's appeal to the smart kids is that it deals with how to live a better life. There are few culturally accepted institutions that have the history of trying to deal (successfully or not) with the big questions.

God exists in the mind- the imagination. Eliminating God is like eliminating terrorism. It can not be done. The best you can hope for is to create a social environment where such an idea either remains benign, embarrassing or otherwise unsustainable.

"God is dead"

if you read the actual quotation you may see how it is often misconstrued"

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
—Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125,  tr. Walter Kaufmann"

Sorry - too impatient a posting. Try again:

"God is dead. God remains

dead. And we have killed

him. How shall we comfort

ourselves, the murderers of

all murderers? What was

holiest and mightiest of all

that the world has yet owned

has bled to death under our

knives: who will wipe this

blood off us? What water is

there for us to clean

ourselves? What festivals of

atonement, what sacred games

shall we have to invent? Is

not the greatness of this

deed too great for us? Must

we ourselves not become gods

simply to appear worthy of

it?" —Nietzsche, The Gay

Science, Section 125, tr.

Walter Kaufmann

As long as the gap between the rich and the poor stay wide, there will always be organized religion. I don't mind people personaly deluding themselves just as long as they keep it attempting to conform the world around them as they see fit.

on a similar subject the Chinese government have now made reincarnation illegal without Chinese government approval. :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20227400/site/newsweek/

bah, I screwed up that last post, ment to say "keep themselves from"

thaddeusphoenix, it will settle down? In case you haven't noticed, the religious nuts that favor islam think the divine plan is islam worldwide, and they are supposed to die bringing that about. I'm not sure I am comfortable with just waiting for things to settle down.

On the other hand, there are those that argue that theism is rearing its ugly head because atheism is.

Steve, Maybe it is better stated: We will prevail.

I didn't mean to imply that we should just wait for it to settle down, but rather that the spike in regilious activity is not shocking in and of itself. Also, that it's decline (furthered by rational, good, people standing up to it) should also not be shocking.

A quarter of the U.K. believes in astrology?

Wow, maybe the United States isn't that far behind in the progress of rational thought and logic when you compare it to the rest of the western world.

I hope that he talks about ghosts in The Enemies of Reason as that is probably where he has the most work cut out for him.

I have great respect for mr. Dawkins and I consider myself a skeptic towards paranormal phenomena in general. However, I like to believe that there are things in this universe that transcend science. Things that cannot be measured or tested. Be it the power of love or even the human condition. I also have enough acquaintances (who are reasonable secular people) who have had paranormal experiences that cannot be satisfactorily explained through reason, though we've certainly tried. I am skeptical towards the ideas of ghosts and such for instance, but I am not going to outright reject the idea on the grounds that it cannot be scientifically proven. Call it romantic idealism or blind stupidity if you like. It is what it is. To me the world and the universe would grow terribly dull if everything could be explained. If everything could be tested, measured and listed in tables, figures and proven in various experiments. To me, a huge part of what makes life interesting is the mystery. Questions like "why are we here?" and "How can the universe be infinite?". I don't think that having a need for that kind of mystery in life is a denial of reality or reason. I may well be wrong, but if that is the case then so be it.

As for Dawkins' question on whether we would like to be entertained by falsehood, I ask what is drama if not make-belief? Pop-corn blockbuster action movies can hardly be called "real". They too defy science. Yet they can be entertaining for exactly that reason.

On the other hand, there are those that argue that theism is rearing its ugly head because atheism is.

It's ugly head has been around veiled behind a curtain of good intentions and illusions of hope for the hopeless. It's about time that Atheism has pulled it's mask off to let the world see it's true colours.

Nietzsche was commenting on the contemporary transition from religious idolatry to state idolatry. In this regard, he likely would have suspected, but still been surprised by the extent of state idolatry found soon after his death in places such as Nazi Germany or Leninist and Stalinist Russia. An interpretation of the quote could be "if state idolatry is to replace religious idolatry, then it is unfortunate that God has been dead, and shouldn't someone do something about the nihilism that continues fostering idolatry?" (Still, I think he would have preferred a more rational search for the mostly-absolute truth he thought existed.)

"in a new two part series for channel four that looks really watch-able..."

oh my god. that's unintentionally hilarious

Religion and the God notion will continue to persist for many generations to come, if not forever, because most people freak out at the thought of there not being anything else. Believing in a higher power is a self-defense mechanism to preserve mental health... (although it's clear it can deteriorate mental health at the same time in the form of suicide bombers, etc.)