The "Neocons on a Cruise" article was fascinating.

I couldn't help but feel a little as if I were reading fiction, though. The story just seemed somehow surreal.

I think they call that 'artistic license'.

Re: Neocons Cruising. I remember Buckley interviewing Solzhenitsyn when I was in college, and being blown away by the gravitas of the Russian and the erudition of Buckley. I loved his Blackford Oakes novels. It's good to know that he may have rediscovered his ability to ask the unpopular questions that likely have uncomfortable answers. I'd love to see someone of his stature come out with an indictment of the Right and its policies and hubris.

As for the cruise, it is, of course, not surprising that the author heard deplorable things. I can't imagine staying on board for the entire week. But we should consider that, in a Leftist version of the cruise, equally offensive and deplorable things would be said. One of the dismaying things about the last 4 years since I've begun reading blogs is the sense that our side has the potential to be as reprehensible, in our own way, as their side. I'd be interested in reading a report from a Mother Jones cruise or a Democracy Now cruise.

in a Leftist version of the cruise, equally offensive and deplorable things would be said

My guess would be that you'd hear a lot less offensiveness & bigotry, but a lot more cringeworthy stupidity and gullibility.

But we should consider that, in a Leftist version of the cruise, equally offensive and deplorable things would be said.

Oh really? What exactly could a "leftist" say that would be as "offensive and deplorable" as calling for genocide or the murder of fellow citizens? These peole are not cellar-dwelling neo-Nazi fanatics hiding out in some Idaho compound. They are mostly upper class professionals. I certainly don’t recall many middle and upper-middle class “leftists” speaking like this:

When I hear her say, " Of course, we need to execute some of these people," I wake up. Who do we need to execute? She runs her fingers through the sand lazily. "A few of these prominent liberals who are trying to demoralise the country," she says. "Just take a couple of these anti-war people off to the gas chamber for treason to show, if you try to bring down America at a time of war, that's what you'll get." She squints at the sun and smiles. " Then things'll change."

Please tell what could a “leftist” say that is as insane as this? This isn’t just “offensive and deplorable,” it’s completely insane, even if she were joking.

My guess would be that you'd hear a lot less offensiveness & bigotry, but a lot more cringeworthy stupidity and gullibility.

So " cringeworthy[sic] stupidity and gullibility" are on par with advocating genocide, hateful racism, and calling for the murder of fellow citizens with whom one disagrees?

Holy cow, you two have some strange standards. Trying to create some sort of moral equivalency for the magnitude of depravity on the right by claiming the left is equally as depraved is pure horse manure.

With just but a quick look at the horrible mess in Iraq, which the right got us into using lies and deceptions to fool the American public about the threat of Saddam and his WMDs, one need not look any further for more substantive examples of the abject depravity of the right wing. Even today with the war going horribly and with no end, right wingers cannot even face the reality of the situation enough to admit any kind of culpability for its utter failure, let alone acknowledging the reckless abuse of power and insane incompetance of the Bush Administration's conduct in managing the conflict.

Please provide a single example of a "leftist" depravity in modern America that is on par with a war that has cost 3500 American lives, untold Iraqi lives, and the American taxpayers a half billion dollars? I'd love to hear such an equal case of "leftist" depravity in America today as horrific as the right’s the Iraq War policies. Please, cite some examples.

I, for one, readily admit the right is insane and destructive. Excuse me if I don’t see the left that way. You know why? Because it isn’t.

I couldn't help but feel a little as if I were reading fiction, though. The story just seemed somehow surreal.

Funny, I can point you to quite a few right-wing blogs where the talk is even more insane than what was said in this article Norm cited. It's not fiction at all that many on the right are becoming more and more insane as their policy in Iraq slides further into failure.

And of course they cannot blame themselves, nosiree, they are blaming the "gutess left" and its weak-kneed enablers in the mainstream media.

It's the old Nazi dolchstosslegende, or stab-in-the-back legend. The "left" lost Vietnam. The "left" is going to cause us to lose in Iraq. And so forth.

You hear it every day on FOX News and can read on the pages of The Weekly Standard and National Review. And, oh man, do you read it on right-wing blogs.

So how is this "fiction," exactly, Frenetic? Please expand this thought you've expressed. Are you implying the journalist "made up" what he wrote? I mean, you certainly don't have to go far to find other right-wingers speaking publicly with the same sentiment as the people in this essay. Or writing it. Fact-checking this essay's claims of the right's insanity and depravity doesn't require much effort. Just go to these blogs for further evidence: Instapundit, Powerline, Little Green Footballs, Michelle Malkin, NRO Online...

So, once again, as with the other commenters in this thread, I wonder why you have such difficulty digesting just how crazy the right has become in America. Are you in denial?

Trying to create some sort of moral equivalency for the magnitude of depravity on the right by claiming the left is equally as depraved is pure horse manure.

Hold on, I never claimed any equivalency between evil and stupidity. Give me stupidity any day - it tends to be more self-limiting!

I was thinking about the nuttiest of the "left" - the ones who are so convinced that all the problems in the world are caused by corporate power, greed, etc. that they will jump on any bandwagon without knowing a thing about it. The kind of people who would have protested about Global Cooling in the 70's, for example.

I think they are the kind of people that you would find on the left equivalent of the National Review cruise. Easy choice as to which one I would go on - I count as friends union organisers and aspiring politicians of both "sides"... but exactly zero racist bigots.

Given that the "left" has very little actual power in modern America, it's hard to find examples of abuses of it as obvious as the Iraq war. I don't want to invoke some variant of Godwin's law here, but you can't claim that the "right" has a monopoly on evil given the realities of 20th century communism - especially in Russia under Stalin.

Personally I reckon it's more about extremism than political ideology; the left/right dichotomy is overly simplistic. Using it too much suggests that half of the population should be modelled on their craziest & loudest members - do you think that the people who go on a National Review cruise or post on LGF are representative of your average American?

I doubt it. Us in the rest of the world know that your Average American can't locate France on a map, let alone be ecstatic about the idea that it may soon be swamped by the Muslim hordes.

Us in the rest of the world know that your Average American can't locate France on a map, let alone be ecstatic about the idea that it may soon be swamped by the Muslim hordes.

Your entire comment, like this sentence, doesn’t really make any sense, now does it? I honestly don't know what you are trying to say here.

I was thinking about the nuttiest of the "left" - the ones who are so convinced that all the problems in the world are caused by corporate power, greed, etc. that they will jump on any bandwagon without knowing a thing about it.

Umm...but are these "nutty lefties" advocating wholesale genocide or murdering fellow citizens in gas chambers like the loons cited in the article?

It's one thing to express silly or nutty ideas, but quite another to advocate genocide and homicide.

That you fail to see this distinction in your rather disjointed and loopy reply to me is strange and perplexing.

Given that the "left" has very little actual power in modern America, it's hard to find examples of abuses of it as obvious as the Iraq war.

Exactly. That was my point, more or less. There aren't "crazy and extremist" lefties in positions of power or belonging to the elite like the people on this cruise and the politicians they support, like, for instance, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. And these people ARE extremists. I consider Cheney as insane and nefarious as the guy running Little Green Footballs.

I don't want to invoke some variant of Godwin's law here, but you can't claim that the "right" has a monopoly on evil given the realities of 20th century communism - especially in Russia under Stalin.

I'm sorry, but I don't know any American liberals and "leftists" today who use Stalin as a role model, so this argument makes no sense in the context of what is being discussed here. Are you implying that blaming Neo-cons for the abuse of power in the Iraq War means you can blame American liberals for the horrors of Stalinism committed nearly 70 years ago? Eh? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Personally I reckon it's more about extremism than political ideology...?

Except for the fact it's the ones on the right calling for genocide and murder. I'm not hearing that from even the most dingbatty "Moonbats" on the extreme left. If they are, please cite evidence.

...do you think that the people who go on a National Review cruise or post on LGF are representative of your average American?

No, but I think they are a decent representation of the insane extremists on the right, who also just happen to occupy the White House and Executive Branch, and also occupy a majority on the Supreme Court. These same insane right-wing extremists are also on FOX News, write for the Weekly Standard and Washington Times, and can be found in the House and Senate. I ask a simple question: how many extremist "leftists" of equal magnitude are found in mainstream news agencies and Congress?