Links With Your Coffee - Tuesday
- CNN Throws in Towel, Admits to Two Errors, and States That All 'Sicko' Facts Are True to Their Source (or something like that)...Moore Realizes All This is Huge Distraction and Then Spends More Precious Time Thanking Paris Hilton for Seeing 'Sicko'... Meanwhile, More than 300 Americans Die Because They Had No Health Insurance During the 8-Day Gupta-Moore War...
- John Edwards Vows To End All Bad Things By 2011 (onion)
In an effort to jump-start a presidential campaign that still has not broken into the top Democratic tier, former Sen. John Edwards made his most ambitious policy announcement yet at a campaign event in Iowa Monday: a promise to eliminate all unpleasant, disagreeable, or otherwise bad things from all aspects of American life by the end of his second year in office.
- WHY THE RIGHT OF RETURN MATTERS TO PALESTINIANS
Whenever peace is discussed, the majority of Israelis and westerners (and many Arabs) automatically assume that in order for there to be peace, the Palestinians need to give up their right of return. Israel has to remain a Jewish state, they argue, and giving Palestinians a right to return would mean no more Jewish majority, which would bring about a system of governance not based on religious exclusivity. It always amuses me when people make this argument with a straight face. Instead of ethnic cleansing and expulsion—an unquestionable evil—being used as an argument against a religiously exclusive racist state, the presence of the religiously exclusive racist state is used as an excuse for the propagation of ethnic cleansing and expulsion.
- Tom Clark - Encountering Naturalism For those who enjoyed the Tom Clark Video I linked to the other day I think you'll enjoy this.
- Bush Tells Miers Not To Tell Congress How Little They Talked About U.S. Attorneys (satire)
- VoteMatch Quiz Answer the questions and discover which candidate most closely matches your views. (tip to Arvind)
- Fears of a Tet Offensive in Iraq - TIME
- YouTube - Logical Fallacies An atheist points to common fallacies made by theists.
- Chimps on treadmill offer human evolution insight
Comments
re: right of return.
ah, go picket the vatican, you moron.
ammous is using democratic arguments to refute the idea of a religiously exclusive state- which does not, in any case, describe israel (for another discussion). he ignores the fact that his own people, who he seems laughably out of touch with since it seems he doesn't even seem to live here, have voted for just such a religiously exclusive state, i.e. hamastan. given the choice between states run by two such crazy religions, i'll take the jewish one, thanks.
That VoteMatch quiz thing is awesome. I think every voter should be required to read/fill this out before being allowed to vote.
On The Right Of Return -- I second what jonathan becker said.
Also, the Arab world has been in an almost continuous conflict with themselves since the time of Mohammad. If they actually cared about each others even the tiniest bit, every single Palestinian refugee could easily have been given a place to live prosperously, and in safety. As they say, if they'd loved their own children a little more than they hated Jews, there wouldn't be any suicide bombers...
The Palestinians were given an offer by the UN in 1948, which they rejected outright -- they demanded that Israel had to cease to exist. Turns out that was a bad decision. Too bad -- they ended up hurting themselves with their own antisemitism... I don't have that much sympathy over that one -- and after almost 60 years of terrorism, guess what -- I've got no fucking sympathy whatsoever.
I'm reminded of that comment at the beginning of the movie Gladiator: "A people should know when it is conquered." If you haven't gotten anywhere with your current tactics in 60 years, you're doing it wrong...
60% Kucinich
Total 60%
Social 69%
Economic 54%
I have a question (a real one, not a rhetorical one) for the posters here.
Under what circumstances is a person or a group of people justified in taking the land and/or possessions of another person or group of people by force?
When they can get away with it. Flippant but true.
Let me get this straight, because SOME palestinians refused to accept an offer. All are to be deprived of their land. It is an error in composition. Palestinians are not a single entity but many individuals. You are in favor of depriving some individuals of their rights because of what others have done. But then might makes right is the criteria you use in assigning justice. The cultural, religious heritage of Israel is so important to some that any justification is a good one. What does it matter that others could provide a home if my home is in Palestine and illegally seized. I thought Israel agreed it just that they be compensated financially, but not allowed to return. It seems to me an acknowledgment that the land is theirs, but because Israel wants to maintain the cultural, religious, society it refuses to allow return. That is the issue not there are suicide bombers so we will punish individuals. That is the issue not that they could find other homes. The arguments offered are justifications for the injustice of not allowing a right of return. Don't try and obscure the issue in a them vs. us dichotomy. I understand the reason Israel doesn't want a right of return, but at least be honest about the reasons and not offer weak arguments in place of the truth. Say that you believe all are guilty for the acts of some. Say that war settles it. But don't try and claim some moral high ground with a they're worse than we are excuse.
who would be crazy and stupid enough to take on the blog owner when he's having a temper tantrum? i guess that would be me.
or maybe not. norm, you seem so emotional about this issue that i'm not sure you want to be challanged on this. your arguments seem to me confused, and full of straw men and highly questionable premesis, so if you do want to argue let me know. but that sounded like blowing off steam to me.
"You are in favor of depriving some individuals of their rights because of what others have done."
My grandparents sold a really cool house for way too little money back in 1986 and then blew it all on a crappy condo in Florida. I want it back! Just because they did something stupid does not mean I should be deprived of my right of return! Dammit!
back in the ol' swamp-and-desert days, when the region was undesirable, legal land purchases were well documented.
sure, one could build good arguments in favor of right of return on a case by case basis. but on a large scale? please. that is propagandistic bullshit.
palestinians had so many chances to climb out of disempowerment, thwarted by their own leaders and neighboring nations. they are stuck in a tragic self-sabotaging cycle. who thinks right of return would be a cure-all elixir for their economic woes and israel's safety? puh-lease.
I'll award that the poorest analogy of the month.
Hey! I'm not the WPIW this time! I'm really moving up in this world.
Thanks Norm ;-)
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