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Father Jonathan

Father Jonathan on Faux News talking about Atheism.... count the logical fallacies, there are plenty, writes David. I'm game we can start with the fact that atheists don't claim a God doesn't exist they claim there is insufficient evidence to believe that one does. There is also the appeal to popularity ninety percent believe so it must be true. Father Jonathan makes other terrible arguments can you identify and refute them?




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Comments

Well for one, it looks real sunny in Rome. And it also looks real sunny in the Fox news HQ. Looks like an around the world live miracle by God!

Well for one, it looks real sunny in Rome. And it also looks real sunny in the Fox news HQ. Looks like an around the world live miracle by God!

Well for one, it looks real sunny in Rome. And it also looks real sunny in the Fox news HQ. Looks like an around the world live miracle by God!

Umm... you can delete the double posts if you like...

holy crap, the arguments this guy is positing don't make any sense at all! i think that logic instruction should be made a core class in grade school. to graduate, one should be to demonstrate at any given time a certain level of proficiency in english, science, math, a foreign language, social studies, pe, the arts, and logic!

"cognito ergo sum"

oh, my head.

why do you do this to me.

why post their inane drivel when you know i will click it and suffer...

oh my head!

i came closest to suffering an aneurism when he suggested that atheist scientists should stick to their field, mere seconds after straying far, far from his own and being flabbergasted at the complexity of a human eye, and nodding sagely at the "whole miracle of human birth" comment. oh, here it comes again...

"Yeah and, and especially uhh, the birth of a child and, and that whole miracle of pregnancy. That'll change a lot of people's minds."

WTF?

Their argument for religion in this clip appears to be that biology is too complicated for many people to understand so the only reasonable way to explain anything in life is the existence of a designer and creator.

This kind of narrow-minded babble coupled with such smugness is precisely the kind of thing that often turns intelligent people off to religion.

The priest fails to account for the higher probability of God's existence. Fails to detail how the eye is irreducibly complex. Fails when he uses an appeal to popularity (90% of U.S. citizens' belief in God gives belief some credibility?). He Fails. Fox Fails. All idiots.

The priest fails to account for the higher probability of God's existence. Fails to detail how the eye is irreducibly complex. Fails when he uses an appeal to popularity (90% of U.S. citizens' belief in God gives belief some credibility?). He Fails. Fox Fails. All idiots.

The Ten Commandments of the Road? What, the DMV safety manual(s) isn't enough? Laughable.

It seems, from what we can actually see, that god doesn't exist. You can speculate though and if you do, you can assume that god exists but please, note that it's just and especulation. I think the debate contenders are really sceptics and believers. People who accept their lack of knowledge and people who don't. The only thing that frightens me about believing is that god is used to evade moral responsability from what we do. Not knowing, makes us humans morally responsible and independent and that is a good thing for humanity.

What I think is hilarious is the comment regarding athiests as intellectuals. It seems as though the argument they're tryhing to make is: intellectuals (those people that think they're smarter than you!) = those evil non-believers. I'm always reminded of Marx's comment about religion being the opiate of the masses; the more pressure you put on people to believe in God the easier they are to control.

My favorite part is when he insists that saying there is no god because there is no proof of god is bad science. what does he believe science is built upon, if not proof?

My fuse blowed after 1 second ("there's the the latest craze..." - atheism)

Then my browser crashed.

Wow, this man is like a one-man argument for atheism. A walking straw man. Are you sure it's not just Sam Harris in a wig?

I hate how they call it militant athiesm. Should we call the many missionaries militant Christians? The two are similar in many ways, both spreading there understanding of things (I am not calling athiesm a religion so don't hit me).

I could fall into the missionary category, I was an aid worker for the Anglican church (I am a Priest) working in the pacific and south asia, but I wouldn't deem myself militant, people came to me, I never 'shoved it down there throat' or made belief mandatory for help. It is a similar situation with Athiesm, people have turned to Dawkins, Harris and Hitchins. These men are merely filling a growing demand in the market, they are not forcing people to buy their books or listen to them, so in what way are they militant?.

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note the "militant atheism" (why militant?) and the disapproving "mmm" by he female commentator after stating the rise of atheism. And the "mugshots" of the crimina atheists. And how he is depicted as an independent reporter (especially by asking the last question).

Poor God. The guy just doesn't get enough respect you guys. Have you ever stopped to think the guy's feelings might be hurt by all your denial in his supreme powers over you? Really, you should all be ashamed of how you treat him, we all know he's got low self-esteem, so let's not rub salt in his wounds anymore OK?

Seriously though, don't you feel like instead of defending God, they're just defending thier own self-esteem? Without God what would this man be to the world? Yup, just another pedophile.

Mea Culpa. Maybe it's because I'm a backwater aussie with no cable tv to keep me informed, but I truly thought I was watching a Colbert-style parody for 90% of this clip. And then they started with the 10 commandments of driving... no comedy writer would get away with that.

We are going beyond scientific.... oh yea...

This guy obviously didn't read the god delusion, it addresses that ridiculous complex eye argument

I love the 90% argument. Didn't 90% of ancient Egyptians believe in Isis? This wasn't a discussion; it was a circle jerk. Almost anyone could have poked holes in his retarded points. Plus, why did they get the gayest priest on earth for this segment?

we can start with the fact that atheists don't claim a God doesn't exist they claim there is insufficient evidence to believe that one does

What are you talking about? That's the definitional difference between atheists and agnostics. Agnostics don't rule out the possibility of a higher power, they just don't see enough evidence for it, while atheists outright believe there is no God.

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Tom, it isn't nearly that simple.

Well I was an athiest for 40 years; until the noted father came on fox biased news; clearly he is an "authority" and wears a white collar, and the reporters are wisely nodding to his perceived wisdom, so I must henceforth abandon all my years of critical scientific thought. And childbirth; so clearly complex; is hard to explain; so it must be.... "a miracle!" Therefore god exists. How about bring in Dawkins for equal time?

I put my money he a liar also.

How many people here thing he actually read The God Delusion? (If he did I got no clue how he could make the eye comment)

How many people thing he really have many atheist friends?

I was surprised that the preist seemed more reasonable than the two presenters. Is this the kind of stuff that passes for a "news item" in the states?

Could ThomasMckay please define his understanding of the words "atheist" "agnostic" because my dictionary was simply MUCH to clear about the matter. Care to muddy the waters for me?

You've got it wrong, Athesits believe ther is no god. It's the agnostics that believe there is insufficient evidence to believe that one does.

the stats are obviously made up anyway... whatever happened to the islamics, muslims, jews and other religions in the US? less than 0.5% in total, one would be able to derive from those statistics.

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why did they get the gayest priest on earth for this segment?

snort. some great comments here, but this was my favorite.i don't know if this was "the gayest priest on earth" but if i were him, and wanted to keep that collar, (here boy!) id get rid of some of the more blatant mannerisms.

regarding that idiotic "miracle of childbirth" comment, i wanted to share something from a jewish perspective. come on, you knew i would.

in the biblical tradition (that is, ancient judaism, not what goes by the term today) a woman who has given birth is required, after a certain amount of time to bring a sin offering. two turltledoves, in fact. the ancient rabbis ask why, and (of course, they're jewish) they answer " in the throes of childbirth she doesn't even know what she's saying. she curses god for having made her a woman (hence the sin offering) and makes a vow never to have sex with her husband again (hence the two turtledoves, symbolizing marital harmony).

which brings me to what i really wanted to tell you: when my (ex)wife was recuperating from giving birth to our 3rd child she overheard another woman who had just given birth after a prolonged and painful labor, and presumably still under mild sedation and undergoing an epesiotomy (look it up if you dare, its not pretty) " sew it up. just sew the damn thing up."

miracle of birth, indeed.

I don't know about you, but my Gaydar was pinging like crazy every time the good priest was on screen. I think I saw that female 'reporter' slinging back jello shooters and throwing her bra into a drunken crowd in a Mexico City bar a couple years ago too. eh... what do I know:)

There is a trend towards Athiesm. It's called young people. i won't quote statistics without a reference but I do believe our ranks a swelling.

Watching this clip made me think about the ability of people comprehend what they read. I take a long time to read things, that's why I like audiobooks better. I don't blow through a book unless I've got a thesis due the next morning, so I spend a lot of time digesting the words on the paper. I don't think this douchebag Roman Cultist with a creamsicle necklass spent more than 2 hours reading Dawkins or Hitchens books.

I'm re-reading William Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, a favorite popular history of many in the West, including Bill O'Reilly. In it, Shirer quotes Hitler as giving an incredibly ironic speech about people reading this or that with poor comprehension and not understanding it at all, whereas HE, Der Fuehrer, understood it all perfectly well. Anybody who's read Nietzsche and Machiavelli, two of Hitler's supposed intellectual influences, and seen how he applied their ideas, can understand just how well this Austrian Corporal / charlatan digested what was written.

Then we come to today, Bill O'Reilly cites Rise and Fall of the Third Reich as one of his book list's most recommended histories. I'm sure a lot of you have seen Keith Olbermann's exposé of Bill'O and his extremely egregious and Orwellian citations of Nazi history. It's almost as if Bill'O mixed up the Nazis and Americans when he read that book, severe dyslexia? With those glazed over eyes of his ... isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

No, I just don't think there's any hope for this Father Douchebag, or any devoutly religious person who can't comprehend what they're reading. They don't even understand the Bible or its contradictions, and in fact they build their own contradictions from it. There is only hope for intellectual religious people or critical thinkers with religious upbringing. They can at least be reconciled with many rationalist, irreligious and analytical frameworks of thinking, even if they maintain their belief in God or in Religion.

But they have to be able to comprehend what they read. I think fundamentalist's inability to not comprehend the allusive nature of scripture is predicated on their inability to think abstractly or maintain a 4th grade level reading comprehension in general.

Why oh why did you post this steaming pile of a video, Norm?

Some points: Do five books (one from Hitchens, one from Dawkins, two from Harris, and one from Dennett) make a publishing "fad"?

"I have a lot of atheist friends; They suffer their atheism...because they know that the world makes a whole lot more sense if God does exist" -- OK, quick show of hands: Is there any atheist in the room who 'suffers their atheism' for this reason? Anyone?

"How do we explain the intricacy of the human eye?" Oh for Christ's fucking sake! Can he really be that ignorant? I'm suprised he didn't trot out the old "then why aren't monkeys giving birth to humans right now?"

"How do we explain the incredible geological reality out there?" Hmmm, geology?

On the 'miracle' of pregnancy and childbirth: Reproduction isn't magic, and that ain't pixie dust you're swallowing, you silly woman.

That priest has a nice pedo-smile.

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im an southamerican atheist and been visiting this site for years and this is my first post.

when i talk to people that believe in god the argument always reaches the point where they say:

if god doesnt exist who created the universe?

i think its hilarious that they find hard to accept that nobody created the universe but they gladly accept that nobody created god!?

who created god?

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btw, miracle of pregnancy? that is her proof that god exists? unbelievable stupid....

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Hey that made my day! Seldom have I seen such brilliant comedy... Oh wait it was real... well I'm still laughing about his points. I'd love to meet him in his church for a good old discussion. ^^

How can you say such a thing? Father Jonathan is so sweetly honey-voiced obviously not gay. Only a godless atheist could suggest such a thing.

Just look at his macho limp wrists. Also listen to the Blonde Joke who welcomes him with her "Good Afternoon, Father Jonathan." Her tone says it all.

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Off-topic?

As an Atheist can I be a godfather? My sister just asked me.

Oh, and Father Jonathon is slimey...er, smiley. No...no, I meant slimey.

iwishimademovies, perhaps you should suggest an alternate designation with a similar meaning. Maybe you could be the kid's "Surrogate Father," or "Back-up Father," or "Emergency Guardian," or something like that. I'm sure you could come up with something a little catchier if you put your mind to it.

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"I have a lot of atheist friends; They suffer their atheism...because they know that the world makes a whole lot more sense if God does exist"

hey, i dont suffer my atheism, i enjoy it very much.

on the other hand i see that religious people suffer they belief, some of they are almost psicotic in their guilt.

and if something in the world doesnt makes sense to me is the idea of god...

The pedophile advocate whined about Dawkins "pushing" his beliefs on others. Dawkins wrote a book which nobody is forced to read. On the other hand we have five Catholics on the Supreme Court and a President who force their religious beliefs on the people every day. No complaints out of the Vatican.

Perhaps people should stay in their field of study as the pedophile advocate suggests. That would essentially eliminate all creationists who pretend to be scientists, and all anti-abortionists who claim to be medical experts.

Should we be surprised that Fox News is nothing more than a parade of idiots? 90% don't believe in God, 90% believe in a god.

A couple jokes:

"God definately wasn't a Civil Engineer.. Who would put the playground by the sewage dump?"

and from lewis black (i think)

"ever seen a woman give birth? This isn't designed?! Trying to push a watermelon through a garden hose!? If we were designed, we'd grow the baby in the backyard, in a box!"

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What are you talking about?

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/10/agnosticism.html

Posted by: Norm

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well, im a 6,9 !! just to leave some room for a simbolic doubt

I suffer my athiesm, I suffer it every day..

The supreme court finds that I have to pay for "faith based" programs through my taxes, and I don't have a choice, hell, I can't even take it to court.

I can't hold office in several states.

I can't buy liquor from anyone but "the state" (in Utah here). Even then, it's half the alcohol content of that of "regular" alcohol.

Anyone who disagrees with me saying "bong hits for Jesus" on a public street can take legal action against me, and win.

"God's Mistake" (pot) can get me years in prison, or fired from my job.

My kids (when i have them) will be forced to hear "the other side" of evolution, which is akin to hearing the "other side of sex education", which involves telling the kids that abortions always cause sterility, and that "sexual touching" causes pregnancy.

I suffer my goddamned athiesm every day.

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hahaha you are right! we are the last oppressed minority!

latest craze....trend.....they make it sound like tomorrow we'll be onto some other topic! Jeez! Faux news indeed!

Leave it to Fox news to find a priest who is as much of a smug, unlearned asshole as the rest of its staff.

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There is only hope for intellectual religious people or critical thinkers with religious upbringing. They can at least be reconciled with many rationalist, irreligious and analytical frameworks of thinking, even if they maintain their belief in God or in Religion.

dionysus, i can see how you might come to this conclusion based on the increasing tendancy toward rationality in the world today (smirk).

i was wondering though, if you've ever seen a movie called "idiocracy". if you've seen the movie, i'll rest my case right there. if not, i get to ask a question i've always wanted to ask here: what do you think of the notion that stupid people simply have more babies, and furthermore that the basics of survival and reproduction are their primary areas of expertise, as opposed to the "intellectual elite"? you know, those guys from the middle ages who took themselves out of the gene pool by vows of celibacy, or todays intellectuals who, for the most part, have 1.2 kids or whatever on average?...you see where i'm going with this. a form of "evolution" that actually fits in nicely with the principles of entropy.:)

"This guy obviously didn't read the god delusion, it addresses that ridiculous complex eye argument"

Darwin predicted and countered this argument in the Origin of the Species back in 1859 - so every creationist who has employed it since then has done so either out of simple ignorance or calculated dishonesty.

Read him here: http://tinyurl.com/5oyws

Especially "Organs of extreme perfection and complication"

On the evolution of the human eye:

Youtube Clip 1

Youtube Clip 2

The anatomy of the human eye, in fact, shows anything but "intelligence" in its design. It is built upside down and backwards, requiring photons of light to travel through the cornea, lens, aqueous fluid, blood vessels, ganglion cells, amacrine cells, horizontal cells, and bipolar cells before they reach the light-sensitive rods and cones that transduce the light signal into neural impulses-- which are then sent to the visual cortex at the back of the brain for processing into meaningful patterns.

-Michael Shermer Why Darkin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design

For more on eye evolution, visit this link.

God's UNDER ATTACK!

FAUX TO THE RESCUE!

what? can't he just turn me into a pillar salt?

"I have a lot of atheist friends; They suffer their atheism...because they know that the world makes a whole lot more sense if God does exist"

actually, the world makes more sense when accept there is god.

with all the senseless violence and random destruction and all.

Randomness makes sense. That god has a plan when mother drowns her 5 kids or a new born has an incurable disease, doesn't

What atheist do suffer is the inane babble of Militant Theists.

meant to write "the world makes more sense when accept there is NO god."

maybe my error was god plan for me?

Excellent videos above - thanks! See Dawkins' video as well on the same subject on YouTube.

There is so much propaganda and idiocy here it is difficult to know where to begin.

First, it is necessary to tell us that those evil hollywood liberals are atheists - just so we know who the enemy is. Then you put on the "militant" adjective on the caption. Then comes the "90% of Americans believe in God caption", which, as Norm as pointed out, warms up up for the Father Johnathan's appeal to popularity. Then comes the good 'ol patronizing line, "I have a lot of atheist friends", who suffer because "they know the world makes a whole lot more sense if God does exist." (An incredible inversion of the reasoning I hear from every atheist I know!) Then we go to the favorite wingnut term for these godless hollywood types, "elites".

Now we move to the maggot-infested "meat" of the priest's defense of faith based on "reason". "How can we explain the incredible intricacy, for example, of the human eye?" – a point directly addressed in Dawkin's book. "How do we explain the incredible geological reality our there?" Never mind that the "geological reality out there" stands as just one mountan of evidence that trashes the Christian mythology of creation offered by Genesis. Then the journabimbo offers the "miracle of pregnancy" as more evidence for God. Never mind that as recently as 1900, maternal death rates were around their historical level of nearly 1 in 100 for live births. The number today in the United States is 1 in 10,000, due largely to improved asepsis, use of caesarean section, fluid management and blood transfusion, and better prenatal care. (Just more meddling of those elites in God's plans for mothers, I presume.) 1 in 100 deaths doesn't strike me as very good evidence for "design".

"How would you get 90% of Americans to agree on any single issue whatsoever?" Gee, I don't know - how woud you get 90% of 14th-century Europeans to agree on whether the world was round?

^ For the win

we should hold them to their specific field

funny he should say that when just before that he was using his religious beliefs to explain away the human eye...

dionysus, i can see how you might come to this conclusion based on the increasing tendancy toward rationality in the world today (smirk).

I think in the margins there are more bright people today and the brightest people are permitted to do brighter things. I really don't care about the masses, at least right now. They're a useless tumor on humanity's backside until genetic engineering can make sure we all think like Einstein and fuck like Peter North.

i was wondering though, if you've ever seen a movie called "idiocracy"....you see where i'm going with this. a form of "evolution" that actually fits in nicely with the principles of entropy.:)

I grew up on Beavis & Butt-Head and am a member of the Church of Office Space, so I had some anticipation for this movie but never got around to seeing it, but I know the premise. I'd have to say that entropy, like death, is merely one tool of evolution.

The German people today are effete leather fetish socialist scum soon to bend over and be raped in the bum by Muslim immigrants and be eventually replaced, but the contributions of everyone from Goethe and Schiller to Wagner and Krebs will long outlast the Romantic Nationalist reign of terror the more assertive earlier modern German people had on history from Bismarck to Hitler, and the German people in general. Entropy destroys indiscriminately, but some things transcend mother nature's intentions, and not even Christianity could completely destroy the learning of antiquity.

I always heard that "suffer" in this sense means "to allow" as in, "suffer the children"/"allow them to come to me."

Kind of puts a whole new spin on the Father's quote.

Congress can mean the national legislative body of a nation or sexual intercourse. I doubt if I were to tell you that I work in congress you'd assume I meant coitus.

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Atheism a fad???? What a total moron. The faux news crew is, as ever incredibly ignorant of any facts whatsoever.

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Suffering their atheism? I think this fool's delusions are not limited to belief in a god.

Anyone here suffering their atheism? Anyone? Buller?

I thought not. Load of crap it was, and I think we aught write in demanding that someone better versed in what's going on in countries like the US and the UK (and most of Europe if I'm not mistaken) comment about this trend. Hint: They won't come from Vatican City.

You had to have combed through a lot of unsavory google hits to "come" upon that.

That's just what I need, to be lectured about anything by a member of the bastion of baby buggery, otherwise known as the Catholic clergy.

Sorry to sound so crude, but an organization that maliciously covered up so much kiddie fucking by its “holy” order like the filthy Catholic Church has pretty much lost its right to occupy the moral high ground now and forever, even if the high ground is a pile of shit.

I don’t even want to listen to this creepy priest. I refuse to listen to what he has to say. FOX News and a babbling Catholic priest discussing the moral superiority of being “people of faith”? These are two organizations that have made mendacity and living in a fantasy world the principle foundation of their intellectual arguments. They piss on the enlightenment with arrogant glee.

Forget about so-called militant atheists too, as if there is such a fucking thing. How about all those priests buggering little kids? Now that’s a true menace to society.

"Militant Atheists." A smiling shill for the most repressive, violent, exploitative, war-mongering institution ever to shield and enable child-molesters cheerfully explains to use about the threat of "militant atheists."

Let's all break out the thumb-screws and torches.

fp

what a horrible display of stupid stupidism by stupid stupid fucks. do we have to be polite here? shit, religious apologists at a time like this. heads wedged so far up their asses they see only darkness. i enjoy a reality based belief system, and i am tired of being tolerant of these insufferable intolerant fucks.

what a horrible display of stupid stupidism by stupid stupid fucks. do we have to be polite here? shit, religious apologists at a time like this. heads wedged so far up their asses they see only darkness. i enjoy a reality based belief system, and i am tired of being tolerant of these insufferable intolerant fucks.

what a horrible display of stupid stupidism by stupid stupid fucks. do we have to be polite here? shit, religious apologists at a time like this. heads wedged so far up their asses they see only darkness. i enjoy a reality based belief system, and i am tired of being tolerant of these insufferable intolerant fucks.

what a horrible display of stupid stupidism by stupid stupid fucks. do we have to be polite here? shit, religious apologists at a time like this. heads wedged so far up their asses they see only darkness. i enjoy a reality based belief system, and i am tired of being tolerant of these insufferable intolerant fucks.

Now THAT ...is a hard hitting news segment!!

whhoops. sorry for the multiple posts. kept getting an error. have fun, ya'll. it is for the sad religious nut to experience hell, here on this earth, not for anyone else. to suffer in ignorance and stupidity, that is hell. yo avoid the real human responsibilty og kindness and undertstanding, that is hell. "Father" boinklittleboys is in the only "hell" this universe will ever know, that of a living foolish human being and woe to those who entrust their children to his sick and wrong house. bye.

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"Militant Atheism" - ah, there's>/i> the fair and balanced perspective we've come to expect from FOX News.

From the way that guy n a dress looks, if I had a kid, I would NEVER let my kid be alone with that.

From the way that guy n a dress looks, if I had a kid, I would NEVER let my kid be alone with that.

From the way that guy n a dress looks, if I had a kid, I would NEVER let my kid be alone with that.

Sorry about the multis. I now understand how this works.

Those statistics are probably out of date. Atlantic Monthly this month reported that up to 17 percent of U.S. citizens are owning up to being atheists.

There are a fair number of Americans who would never dare refer to themselves as being atheists and yet they don't believe in a supreme being. They tend to refer to themselves as being "spiritual".

They tend to refer to themselves as being "spiritual".

In an episode of The Colbert Report, Steven interviewed Bart Ehrman and asked him if he believed in a god. Bart replied that he was an agnositic. Steven then said, "Isn't that just an atheist without balls?" :)

The priest guy obviously hasn't read any of Dawkins books because he mentions the eye as evidence for god. The woman said child birth or some nonsense lol I think Bill Hicks debunked that lmao.

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Hope Faux decries the Atheist books so often until each religious American has read at least one - this would separate the nuts, who need religion to suppress others from those who happen to be born into one and are glad to get out as soon as they can break the heavy dumbth in religious areas.

Again, I don't think that most people really watched the the news clip. None of you guys have come up with any intelligent reasons why Father Jonathan is wrong. Most of these comments are making fun of him. Maybe Father Jonathan doesn't have good arguments on why God exists, but even if he did I don't think that anyone here would take the time to listen. You guys just believe whatever you want.

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