I share Affleck’s anger but I’m glad to see that Obama and Clinton had the courage to vote no. Joe Biden caved.

What courage with a symbolic vote knowing the outcome. Politicians are sly creatures who know how to fool idiots who believe they have their interests at heart. What politician would go up against The Israeli Lobby?

...

Affleck may not be a good actor, but he sure can see (and articulate) what is going on better than most, including The Professional Cocktail Party Caucus

Affleck may not be a good actor, but he sure can see (and articulate) what is going on better than most, including The Professional Cocktail Party Caucus

"sacrificed core political beliefs" Hardly, the democrats are not against the war, they are for it, they simply don't like the way its been going so far.

What is this myth that somehow the democrats represent the opposition? They dont represent me! They dont represent an iota of what I think a democracy should look like (for example not spending half a trillion on the military would be a start, and spending more on education)

Did anyone hear Joe Biden's explanation for his vote? He is one of the most intelligent people on Iraq and the sad thing is he will never get to the top tier in fundraising. Do you understand what this bill was for, and what would happen to the democrats in the general election if they let the funding lapse over their vacation break? YOU NEED 17 REPUBLICANS to change to get anything done in Iraq!!! You can send the president the same Bill over and over to appease the anti-war groups, let the funding run out over the summer, and the republicans have a perfect platform in the gen. election.

Ben,

Joe Biden's explanation is basically that he did the wrong thing because otherwise the Democrats will have no chance to be elected in 2008. This is a pretty tired explanation for everything that they do. Democrats are so scared about the other side that they don't want to do the right thing. Frankly, I am getting pretty tired about their long speeches about what a terrible administration this is and yet they don't do anything about it. It is almost like they want to win the election by default and not because they deserved it. Pretty soon the lesser of two evils is not going to work anymore and they are going to find themselves cleaning the Republicans' rear ends.

Mahr's aside about Ronald Reagan goes through a telling curve. He gives the example of how RR held his ground as a politician --a useful contrast to what is lacking right now in the "fucking" "fucking" "fucking" Democratic Party --thanks Mr. Affleck. Brilliant. Anyway, instead allowing of this comment regarding Reagan's character to stand, he runs into a problem. That is, he's talking about Ronald Reagan for crap'sake. So, predictably -and because there's a palpable crimp in the air- he has to sabotage the point and blame the public for "being sheep".

You might as well hang it up and not have a show, Bill.

It's true that the public can be sheep, but not always. What is certain, however, is how Mahr can be extremely smarmy and transparently self-serving to ensure that his ass will always read "cool".

Dems will never get anywhere by caving.

We have known since Raygun that Republican politicians are essentially fascists. By their statements and acts they have stood behind that ideology.

Dems need to stand up for once and say where they stand, and never to waver.

That is how the Repubs and their Contract On America did it.

Democrats are so scared about the other side that they don't want to do the right thing.

I think you are overlooking the specifics of this situation. As Biden said, is the right thing to go on vacation without funding the troops that are there? I don't understand why everyone is so angry with the democrats. This is not a one party government, and you need 67 votes to get anything passed and overule this president. You think the democrats can change this policy in Iraq, and that they are just making speaches to complain about this administration? They already sent him a bill with a timetable, and one with an OPTIONAL timetable that Bush can void, and he still threatened a veto. The democrats can "do the right thing" and pander to anti war groups, or they can do the sensible thing and try to get 17 republicans on their side to get a withrawa billl passed. Biden hit this right on the nose on Wolf Blitzer on Sunday.

Ben,

As for the funding, do you really think that the US is going to stop funding on Friday while this debate is going on? I'm sorry but at some point the Democrats have to stop the funding if they believe it is going to lead to more deaths. If by more funding you keep this insane war going then stop it. At what point do the democrats start asking Bush to be accountable for the money already spent. I'm all for compromise but this is just ridiculous. Bush never, ever compromises because he knows he doesn't have to.

The Dems don't have to do anything at all... That's the problem in this two-party system.

The Republicans have so utterly and completely fucked themselves, that unless every democratic candidate starts wiping their arse with a burning flag while fellating Hillary's strap-on -- well, they're gonna win. (Sorry about that imagery, I got carried away a little).

They don't have to do anything. They don't have to do a damned thing. And that's what a winner-takes-all system does to ya...

I got carried away a little

Dzwonka got carried away?! I thought I'd never see the day! ;)

And that's what a winner-takes-all system does to ya...

Don't forget, there's more to the problem than just the election system. There's also the fact that you need millions of dollars to even get on the political radar. If the American public doesn't see you on the teevee, you don't exist.

You don't see any reasonable, intelligent, middle-class people stepping up to the plate, instead you have idealist nutcases, and the bullshit dog-and-pony parades that are the Rep and Dem parties.

"The Democrats" and "The Republicans". Honestly, people, stop this retarded generalizing.

"Democrats are so scared about the other side that they don't want to do the right thing."

The problem is that people like you continuously assert that the bill was 'the right thing', when it is anything but.

I understand being upset that the Democrats huffed and puffed and turned out to be full of nothing but hot air, but getting upset that their idea didn't go anywhere? It was a stupid idea.

I think Mike Gravel has the right idea: Dems need to go on the offensive. Send a bill demanding immediate withdrawl, and let the President veto it. Attempt to overturn said veto, and fail. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Let it be known who is who on the issue of Iraq. Let it be black-and-white, us-and-them, 0 and 1.

Go on the news every night and explain how much money was borrowed today in order to fund our imperialism. Explain that the voter's grandchildren will be the ones paying off this debt, along with social security and our eventual socialized medicine system. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

You can't beat the fear tactic. It has proven itself effective time and time again. But you know what's scarier than a terrorist? Subjecting your children and grandchildren to abject poverty.

Boo.