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Evolution

If you're not smarter than a fifth-grader please raise your hand, for the record Brownback, Huckabee, and Tancredo raised their hands. Thirty percent of the Republican candidates, just slightly less than the population at large, are fucking idiots on this topic. It is just another example of intelligent men failing to use their intelligence.




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Comments

Interestin'. I want to see more of this and what sort of questions were asked.

No you don't. Most of the questions were terrible to watch. This was one of the few true questions to ask.

Another interesting moment, though, was when McCain came out in support of funding stem cells.

Funding for stem cells and believing in evolution -- McCain is screwed with the base.

Longtime lurker here. It would have been nice to see the other candidates explain themselves as well. I take no offense to McCain saying that he believes in a god but also understands biological evolution. I'm honestly glad that he's smart enough to know the difference between general evolution and the "humans are monkeys!" propoganda.

I'm a tour guide at the Grand Canyon and I've never seen a "hand of God there."

Maybe they are just saying what they think will get them elected when Falwell rounds up the troops during primaries? Or maybe I am over estimating their political cunning?

I don't think this should surprise us at all. They are also far from being idiots. In fact, they're quite cunning. They know that as republicans they need to appeal to their base and so they spew out this crock of shit in order to satisfy them. Otherwise they would probably not even be considered as a desirable candidate.

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Damn you McCain.

For a Republican, you make a lousy democrat. Stop trying to lick the Christian theoctrats' ball, for fucks sake!

All this ball licking has ended up in nobody liking you anymore. Evolution is just a fucking YES! No BUTs. The question, the way it's posed, doesn't even deserve a polite answer. It just deserves an "of course, you dumbass, evolution has been proven thousands of times over, and what do you mean 'believe?', as opposed to what? what other fucking scientific theory even begins to describe so accurately and beautifully what we see?" kind of answer.

Let those other idiots make fools of themselves.

McCain was the only one to speak on the subject the others answered by raising their hand.

OT ~ Did you see Christopher Hitchens on Lou Dobbs talking about "God is not Great". Lou was very impressed.

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Definitely a depressing state of affairs. And could they have sweated any more walking the tightrope on the Iraq war?

However on the other side of the fence, the beloved Democratically-controlled House is trying to not only keep the idiocy that is 'hate crime' legislation alive, but expand it to include women and 'sexual orientation'.

Plenty of stupidity to go around.

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Wow...just wow. I am currently a evolutionary biology student in college, and this kind of thing always drives me to drink.

How can these people spout this drivel? I don't know what's worse, the fact that these guys don't think evolution is real or the fact that they are willing to intellectually whore themselves out for the vote.
Anyone who disagrees with evolutionary theory is either crazy, uneducated, or both. I am all for dissent in the ranks to test a hypothesis, but this is insanity.

McCain had to get in his "Hand of god" bit after he said he believed in evolution. Didn't want to lose all the nut case votes.

By the way evolution isn't for your to believe in. You either accept tons of evidence or you don't. You are either rational and logical or you aren't.

Evolution happens if you believe in it or not.

Laughing with Jamie...

"... never seen a 'hand of God' there."

PS as an avid cross-country trekker (six times now between L.A. and North Carolina) I have to commend you and the rest of the Grand Canyon tour guides... so helpful / knowledgeable. Seriously!

" …but expand it to include women and 'sexual orientation'."
Damn it must be lonely being misogynistic and homophobic.

They spout this drivel because people that believe this drivel don't ask questions, which is the way the politicians like it. I think they all believe evolution is a very good theory based on the evidence, but they are willing to lie through their teeth to get into office.

surya, couldn't help noticing your handle... similar to other indian handles used here.

vj

I think they all believe evolution is a very good theory based on the evidence

What incentive does a politician have to know or care about biology? Its not like most politicians have a history of making policy decisions based on their knowledge of the issue. They don't listen to books or experts, they listen to the "truthiness" in their "gut"... and their gut has a lot to say about who votes for whom, and puts money in the campaign coffer; not so much about facts and truth.

Also, a politician who appeared well-educated and knowledgeable would have a hard time getting elected in the USA.

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You really have to check your intelligence, self-repsect and honesty at the door if you want to get anywhere in the national Republican party. Mill called conservatism the stupid party and there are moments when his comment doesn't seem like a juvenile attack at all.

they are smart enough to know that mass religion is very useful for politicians. regardless of what they actually believe, appealing to the religious masses is how bush won the presidency

I think they all believe evolution is a very good theory based on the evidence, but they are willing to lie through their teeth to get into office.

You are naive. I know adults of the same age who would generally be considered as intelligent as Brownback or Huckabee who definitely do not accept the facts of evolution. One of my wife's friends mentioned a ridiculous "museum" in the Dallas-Fort Worth area where she had seen 'a human footprint inside a dinosaur print' and she actually believed this constituted "evidence" in support of the biblical creation fairy tale.

Americans, even those with "educations", are remarkably ignorant about science – and most of them are perfectly comfortable with that state of affairs.

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"Damn it must be lonely being misogynistic and homophobic."

I wouldn't know - but it is lonely being one of few people who actually believe in freedom. Or our Constitution. Can you really not see the hypocrisy of using the guise of teaching 'tolerance' to forcibly eradicate behavior and belief with which you disagree? People have the right to hate whomever they want.

Even disregarding the problems inherent with trying to legislate 'acceptance', you should realize that as a practical issue, 'hate crime' legislation is a joke. There are no positives. Yet its negatives include: it robs the justice system of its impartiality; the very nature of the legislation makes it difficult to prove or deny, and encourages fraud and misapplication; and many other obvious flaws.

Most importantly it sends the message that certain groups are more important to protect than others. This is simply a ridiculous idea to support in a society supposedly based upon equality and freedom.

The only reason anyone would support 'hate crime' legislation is because they are part of a group which wishes special protection or elevated status, or in some way emotionally linked to such a person. But excuse me if I don't want to back a ridiculous, hypocritical, arbitrary set of rules, foot a bigger tax bill, and add more burden to our already strained justice/penal system so you can feel good about yourself.

A crime is a crime. If a kid gets the shit beat out of him at school, you think his attacker should only be punished adequately if the victim is gay? Or black?

Why don't we just expand the list to include everybody by throwing it away.

Punish the crime.

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"Damn it must be lonely being misogynistic and homophobic."

I wouldn't know - but it is lonely being one of few people who actually believe in freedom. Or our Constitution. Can you really not see the hypocrisy of using the guise of teaching 'tolerance' to forcibly eradicate behavior and belief with which you disagree? People have the right to hate whomever they want.

Even disregarding the problems inherent with trying to legislate 'acceptance', you should realize that as a practical issue, 'hate crime' legislation is a joke. There are no positives. Yet its negatives include: it robs the justice system of its impartiality; the very nature of the legislation makes it difficult to prove or deny, and encourages fraud and misapplication; and many other obvious flaws.

Most importantly it sends the message that certain groups are more important to protect than others. This is simply a ridiculous idea to support in a society supposedly based upon equality and freedom.

The only reason anyone would support 'hate crime' legislation is because they are part of a group which wishes special protection or elevated status, or in some way emotionally linked to such a person. But excuse me if I don't want to back a ridiculous, hypocritical, arbitrary set of rules, foot a bigger tax bill, and add more burden to our already strained justice/penal system so you can feel good about yourself.

A crime is a crime. If a kid gets the shit beat out of him at school, you think his attacker should only be punished adequately if the victim is gay? Or black?

Why don't we just expand the list to include everybody by throwing it away.

Punish the crime.

Off topic and a double post to boot., nice job Yusef Islam lover.

Could McCain have given a more gutless answer to a simple question? The moderator should have asked the candidates if they believe in gravity, or that the earth revolves around the sun. McCain could have said that he believes in gravity but every time he accidentally drops his coffee cup he is reminded of the power of Jesus. The two evolution deniers should have been sent back to remedial high school biology, either that or had two tons of fresh horse manure dumped on their heads.

vivek: Heh, totally didn't think that would get noticed. To be honest, I'm just a white girl from the 'burbs, but I've always had an interest in mythology/religions, atheist tho I am. I chose the nickname on the fly in college to use as a video game handle and it just stuck.

Just what we need from our leaders of the free world, less than a high school education in science. I Could never see myself voting republican anytime soon. Id actually like to see that question asked to the democrats as well, I'm sure they all claim to be christian too. But how christian? scary christian?

Can I just add something to that? I believe in eating my cake, but I also believe that when I sit at the table and contemplate my fork that I have my cake as well.

"One of my wife's friends mentioned a ridiculous "museum" in the Dallas-Fort Worth area where she had seen 'a human footprint inside a dinosaur print' and she actually believed this constituted "evidence" in support of the biblical creation fairy tale."

Indeed, and let people who thought Dr Dino was stupid in setting up his museum take note: creationist museums either 1) convince very dim people (or people who need to believe) that what they say is true because 'it says it in a museum' or 2) undermine credibility in museums for the general public (you can't necessarily trust what it says in a museum).

Win-win for creationists; or indeed for any position where you're own fairy tale is easier to comprehend than the reality.

Oh my gosh, did those men actually raised their hands??? I mean, yikes. Also, poor McCain, you can see the hesitaion in answering the question…then you could see his brain working fast to say something about God.

Brownback, Huckabee, and Tancredo are simply morons (and I'm a Christian).

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Huckabee continues to do us proud! He's also been touring with his "band" and a Clinton impersonator.

He is definately not faking his disbelief in evolution to please the base. He's a Baptist Preacher, apparently called to the ministry and then away from it, and an idiot. Wait until you see more of his wife. She's hillarious. Not in a good way. In a "if you like flinching" way. They remodeled the mansion, which did need it, but instead of moving operations to one of several luxury hotels that offered them entire floors to use and other state offices being available, they chose to put a triple-wide trailer in the front yard and live there. A classy man of the people!

They cleaned out the governor's office when they left, taking everything, including such things as the lights for press conferences (after having almost destroyed the most beautiful and historically significant parts of it when they moved in--our new governor is having it all restored) and had the state pay for their groceries and constant personal travel in state vehicles and planes. Our new governor is managing to pay for his own food.

Huckabee also destroyed the computers used during his tenure as governor--as in hammer to the hard drives--despite the obvious fact that he didn't own them or have any right.

Unfortunately, our daily paper loves him. Fortunately, our weekly is on to him and cuts him no slack.

I couldn't be more happy to have him out of office here and to have a great new governor, but his appearances in the national media just might be worse. Airing the dirty laundry of a state that has as its unofficial motto "thank God for Alabama," is just an embarressment.

He's not bad at being a little charming in interviews--has a small sense of humor--but can't speak rationally on any subject. I detest him.

Also, I didn't watch the entire debate, so maybe he was brilliant the rest of the time.

But I kind of doubt it.

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"Off topic and a double post to boot."

Off topic, perhaps, but that's only because this site never - NEVER - discusses any problems with non-Conservative ideology. Everybody decries the two-party system in one moment, and then goes to their little enclave of same-thinking people to mock 'the other side' the next. Maybe we should be analyzing all positions with the same critical, logical eye?

I thought Norm would clear that second post for me. Sorry about that.

"nice job Yusef Islam lover."

You do know that Cat Stevens basically renounced Islam, right? But that, too, is 'off-topic'.

Hand of God? Hey, that's my line.

McCain could have said that he believes in gravity but every time he accidentally drops his coffee cup he is reminded of the power of Jesus.
Now, that's a quote to remember. Nice one!

Dzwonka,

The best part of waking up, is seeing Jesus in your cup...

TeaForTheTillerman,

There is most certainly an unappologetic left slant to OGM, however, I must defend Norm. They don't come much more conservative than Mr. Hitchens, and Norm has been following his book tour for the past few weeks now.

It's rare for a person to the right of me to be featured so prominantly on such a "liberal" blog. Bravo to Norm for showing us that the religion debate extends far beyond any left/right paradigm.

this site never - NEVER - discusses any problems with non-Conservative ideology

I guess you’ll have to scroll over to some right-wing, ass hat’s blog for fairness. If you will look back you’ll see a Daily Show with the Democratic candidates all being pilloried. It’s the Right who have completely abandoned critical thinking. That’s why they still deny evolution or insist on hedging their bets with a heavy dose of praise-be-to-god with every mention of the subject. If an Democratic candidate go that route they can say good bye to my vote.

this site never - NEVER - discusses any problems with non-Conservative ideology

I guess you’ll have to scroll over to some right-wing, ass hat’s blog for fairness. If you will look back you’ll see a Daily Show with the Democratic candidates all being pilloried. It’s the Right who have completely abandoned critical thinking. That’s why they still deny evolution or insist on hedging their bets with a heavy dose of praise-be-to-god with every mention of the subject. If a Democratic candidate goes that route they can say good bye to my vote.

My double post is to correct my Spanglish or whatever the hell grammatical breakdown occurred in the last post.

I thought Norm would clear that second post for me. Sorry about that.

What post was that? I don't recall deleting any comments you've made. The only thing that puts them into moderation is over three links. I just checked the junk folder and didn't see anything there. If a comment of yours is missing post it again.

Could you provide a link to Cat Stevens denouncing Islam or whatever it is he did.

Half of them didn't "believe" in evolution!! scary. By the way, I think you can not "believe" in a science theory. Evolution just seems to far more probable than creationism. I don't like the word "believe" or at least the character given to it in the past decades.

Was anybody as impressed with ron paul as i was? Im from his district and Ive never even heard of the guy. I actually liked a republican.

I thought Ron Paul was great. I think it's because he's a conservative, not a neocon like the other candidates. I think Paul might take it a little too far, as he seems to think the federal government is the worst thing ever and needs to disappear, but he's got the right idea about the war, and government spending.

We spend a lot of money on unnecessary stuff, and we all know even if Democrats get spending under control in the next two years, that doesn't mean they'll have cut out pork and other unnecessary spending. In fact, with the military spending bill, we know they're comfortable with several billion dollars of pork here and there.

How about a Paul-Gravel ticket, or Paul-Kucinich (either order, who cares which is President and who is VP)?

You do know that Cat Stevens basically renounced Islam, right? But that, too, is 'off-topic'.

TeaForTheTillerman,

If you want to be OGM's "contrarian" that is fine with me. I enjoy a good debate, and you don't appear to be without the ability to reason – unlike most of GWBs apologists. Nevertheless, like the bogus "Iraqi opinion" claim you made a few days ago, you have not provided any evidence to back up this claim concerning Cat Stevens (Yusef Islam), as pointed out by Norm. Iconoclasts are welcome, but if they are lazy they come off like Camille Paglia - a gossiping half-wit.

By the way, I think your hate-crime viewpoint has merit. As a 52-year old straight white male, I'm not quite sure why my murder would be less serious than a gay male, or a black female, etc. One might argue that if I were killed expressly because I was a white male, then it could be considered a hate crime. Mucking up the law with this kind of parsing of motive seems pretty murky to me.

Last time I checked, evolution was still a theory for a reason. Make it a fact then call people idiots.

Last time I checked, evolution was still a theory for a reason. Make it a fact then call people idiots.

Evolution as Fact and Theory

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_fact-and-theory.html

Check again, idiot.

Last time I checked, evolution was still a theory for a reason. Make it a fact then call people idiots.
Elen As with so many people you are quite mixed up about facts and theories. Theories are made of, in part, facts gathered by a lot of testing and observation. To say that a fact is more important or truthful, for lack of a better word, than a theory is to completely misunderstand both terminologies.

ryan_speaker:

Here here! I second a "Paul / Gravel" ticket. What do these men have in common? TRUTH.

Elen, Obviously you have never studied any science, so let me give you a hint.

In science you start out with an observation. This is a "fact". E.g., these finches look different to those finches.

Then you form a hypothesis. This is a possible, testable, explaination of the observation.

You then test the hypothesis and, based on your results, accept it, or modify it to fit the results.

Finally, after extensive testing of your hypothesis, if it is not only, not contradicted by any of the available evidence, but also useful in predicting future observations, it gains the exalted title of Theory.

Evolution is still a theory because there exists no evidence against it.

It is possible that you are confusing theories with laws, like the Law of Gravity. Laws in science are usually just sets of equations based on repeated observations. Theories are used to explain them.

By the way, ID hasn't even reached the hypothesis stage yet.

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