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Republicans Eat Their Own

Joe Scarborough is really getting pissed. Did he think the "you're either with us or you're against us" crowd respected anyone?

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Amusing to see Scarborough on a rampage, but be weary of glorifying him too much. You'll note that his main point is that he defines conservatism, and that conservatism is still a great thing. Don't let conservatives distance themselves what they've done. As their precious bible says, you shall know a tree by its fruit.

When Pat Robertson makes sense, you know this country is fucked up.

How does Joe Klein still have a job? Why is he invited on TV? He's terrible

Screw Scarborough and anyone else who supported the war initially and has finally come to the realization that Bush has got us into such a mess that it will take years for us just to cut and run. The U.S. in the middle of an Iraqi civil war? Who could have possibly predicted that? Only anyone who knew anything about Iraq before we invaded. I will again ask conservatives this simple question: What is your best-case scenario for Iraq? And then pardon me while I laugh (or cry).

"You'll note that his main point is that he defines conservatism, and that conservatism is still a great thing."

Ideologically conservatism has just as much utility as liberalism. Neither is correct by themselves. Learn from Asian culture - balance is key.

"Screw Scarborough and anyone else who supported the war initially"

Like 98% of Democrats and roughly 75% of the country?

"Like 98% of Democrats and roughly 75% of the country?"

Exactly. Hindsight is always 20/20, and with the way that simple politics run in America, it would have been career suicide to oppose him at that juncture. It doesn't make it anymore right, but, hey, that's just kind of the way that the world works. America was scared shitless (thank you daily show), we fell into the over-patriotic fervor had in the aftermath of 9/11 and really didn't hold our officials to thinking things through. We are equally to blame.

Wow, those are some sweeping number generalizations.

Not discounting that it could be accurate I can at least for myself say that I thought it was all bullshit to begin with.

Then again, I'm not American and I don't succumb to any kind of patriotic fervor. Patriotism and authoritarianism play in the same yard. I prefer just being human.

But even among the masses of Americans, I would think many more would have looked at the Iraq thing thought about the history and seriously doubted the spoutings of this administration.

But maybe that's just wishful thinking.

I will never vote for anyone, ever again, that was in support of this war at any point in time. I don't care what your gender is, your race, your religion (or lack there of)... any of that. If someone running for office voted in support of the war, then unless they signed themselves up for duty shortly after... F THEM. I've had it.

These stinking politicians (almost ALL of them) just keep stalling and stalling and buying time.

Iraqi elections, Iraqi constitution, non-binding resolutions, impassioned speeches, agreeing, disagreeing, blah, blah, blah.

Goering's quote sums it up.


I don't care which talking head it is or when they change direction if it's for the better. I can only celebrate anything that at least points in the direction of sanity, which is miraculous enough coming from the bilge pump of any bloated and self-serving bureaucracy.

It always frightens me that I agree with Buchanan so often.

It only took them these many years, these many deaths, these many failures to actually start getting pissed off.

These people have no right to be getting pissed off because had they done their job correctly from the start, they might have been able to stop this war from ever happening. But of course, they rolled over on their backs and played bitch to the government.


Joe Scarborough is going to town.

Goering's quote sums it up.

Yes, his most famous quote. This should be engraved next to lady liberty with big font size for all to see.

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. --Hermann Göring


"Like 98% of Democrats and roughly 75% of the country?"

Go back and check the votes. 21 out of 48 Democrats in Senate voted against the war; in the House 126 out of 207 Dems voted against the war--and that was just a year or so after 9/11. At its peak the support for the war among the general public was about 60%. And they were lied to about WMDs. I didn't support the war but some of others who did thought there was a grave threat.

I don't think Tony Snow was talking about conservatism, so I don't know what Joe is getting so worked up about.

In general I think that Snow's point is somewhat correct, actually--if you give up very easily, then it could encourage more aggression. But if the policy is not working, hasn't worked for 4 years, and has no prospect of working, then it is incredibly stupid to worry about how it will look. Right now Al-Qaida is encouraged because we're losing in Iraq. When the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, Al-Qaida got up and left. They didn't care about how it would look, they cared about living to fight another day, and that's what they're doing right now on the Pakistan-Afghan border. This war has seriously messed up the ability of our military to live and fight another day. That matters a lot more than how it looks for Al-Qaida.

Robertson IS nuts when it comes to Mexico, but a lot of other stuff I hear from him I like.

What amazes me is that the bu$h administration has been WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING, including battle planning, strategy, and even common sense. How could they have been so stupid? Don't they have access to the best and the brightest? This begs the question; was Iraq invaded merely for the sake of waging war (and grabbing oil)? If so, weren't the bush neocons taught as children NOT TO START A FIGHT OR YOU MIGHT GET YOUR A$$ KICKED? This is a very basic rule of thumb from the school yard to the battlefield. I also am amazed that they never heard (or chose to ignore) the old saying, "The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

"In general I think that Snow's point is somewhat correct, actually--if you give up very easily, then it could encourage more aggression."

If giving up too easily could 'encourage more aggression', how do we rate the Bushies on their decision to walk away from Afghanistan with the job 1/2 done?

... To fight the wrong enemy

... in such a way as to substantially AID the efforts of the real enemy?

It was apparently three for one day for Al Quaida...

Im more conservative, oh no, im more conservative, no, IM MORE conservative....jesus, these guys are masturbating their conservative credentials like its the greatest thing....i degress Its nice to see the republicans get what democrats have been eating for the last 6 years...crow.

Go back and check the pre-invasion archives here at onegoodmove and you will find that most of the people here were adamantly against the war. 20/20 hindsight? No, it was just common sense, a faculty we seem to have abandoned in favor of ideology and the party line. Conservatives have been wrong about a lot of other things as well: Intelligent design, creationism, global warming, everything having to do with the environment, gay rights…you name it. Even captains of U.S. industry are beginning to admit that we need some kind of national health care system is we are to stay competitive globally. It’s time for conservatives to pull over and let someone else drive.

They're not all that bad. I mean they've done...well they' know, um...

Holy fuck they have gotten everything wrong!

I actually supported the war at the outset because we were told it would be a six week war and I believed them. They never claimed we were going to stay for years and rebuild the entire country. I foolishly thought they would simply go in, get the weapons, and leave.

After around 6 months I realized I was wrong and did a big about face. Does that make me an idiot?

I hope not. And I think whatever Joe Scarbourough has done in the past, I'm glad he made this broadcast.

"After around 6 months I realized I was wrong and did a big about face. Does that make me an idiot?"

That may have been a rhetorical question, but the answer is: Hell no! Realizing you were wrong (or underinformed, or misinformed, or just plain lied to) and changing your stance makes you not an idiot.

Everyone, at some point in their lives, makes mistakes, or carries an opinion that eventually runs up perpendicular to reality.

The ability to change your mind after you've invested an interest in something is a sign of character.

Not being partial to a certain outcome when reality doesn't match your assumptions is also a basis of the Scientific Method, which brings us nice things like computers and flush toilets.

A stubborn refusal to change one's mind (or "having faith in something") no matter what facts to the contrary one is faced with, is what makes an idiot. (Gee, this definition fits a certain political figure whose name starts with a "D" and ends with an "ubya".)

Hey cut scarborough a break, it only took him 3000 dead americans and 50,000 injured to pull his head out of his ass. The way i see it we have a few options in iraq nobody mentions 1. supply shiites with lots of weapons and hope they win, possibly even provide them with airstikes. 2. let them fight it out fairly and if we dont like the situation after bomb the hell outta them 3. Leave, and never let anymore muslims into our country because we will be attacked again by terrorism due to this war. 4. Leave and pray the situation stabalizes itself. The whole world hates us now and with good reason. No country is powerful enough to police the whole world.

To leftbanker: Would you rather have those that changed their mind (the ones that supported the war but now realize their mistake) still believing the bullshit that Bush fed everyone. I say kudos to them. Some people have too much pride and that's the reason we're still in Iraq. The more that come around means the faster we get out of Iraq.

Anyways, I really like Scarborough and Buchanan. It is always refreshing to see Republicans make sense.

^Question mark, first sentence. That would have bugged me.

Of course that could have been avoided if gut-feelings and beliefs were discarded and a demand for evidence from our government were presented instead of the rash decision to jump into war over any form of diplomacy.

It seem to have taken too many lost lives, too much money, and too much time before we finally start seeing people go, "uh oh..." If it had to take all of this to convince people that the war is was a bad idea, then I hold no respect for them at all. At all. If you're finally changing your mind don't expect to be praised in any sort of way. This isn't some great accomplishment of yours, it's what's expected of you.

Two things:

First, wouldn't it be GREAT to send this clip back in time?

Second, everyone thinks that the brilliant minds in the White House screwed up the war. What if: this is more or less what they wanted?

De-stabilize the country, let it degenrate into civil war. maintain permanent bases to oversee the oil. Do the same to the next power in the region Iran.

Does anyone REALLY think that Mossad hasn't carried out missions in Iraq? They ARE there, what have they done? Hell, Mossad has a huge presence in the farking US of A.

btw: am reading Jimmy Carters book "Our Endangerd Values" VERY good read.

here's a real plan

cut the country up into 3 sections

one for sunnis one for shiites and one for kurds... just like it should have been before they arbitrarily drew borders and called it Iraq 100 years ago...

then you don't have the religious/cultural power struggle that is fuelling this civil war in the first place


ah think some uh you fellers maght be a-gloatin' a little early. don' look to me lahk ee-rak is really th' main theatuh. ah'll be sellin' tickets t' th' big showdown in ee-ran, ovah in front o' the stadium.

a "boat" indeed.


ah think syria'l be on th' wrong enduh this one, too, fer those of you in a bettin' frame o' mind. america may be dumb, but her memory is long, and her paranoia deep and economically based. :)

"Screw Scarborough and anyone else who supported the war initially"

Like 98% of Democrats and roughly 75% of the country?

Yes. If you were too bloody lazy to bother to look into the facts before the war started - and they were easy to find, easy to understand and were clear that the Administration was lying, then screw anyone who supported the war.

SCIENTIFIC FACT: Joe Scarborough can be heard from space.

DJEB Like 98% of Democrats

Wrong. It wasn't like even 98% of the entire congress.

The Iraq War Resolution passed by a vote of 296-133 (68% for) in the House and 77-23 (77%) in the senate.

Amongst the democrats it was 29-21, which would be 58% of senate democrats voting for the resolution.

81-211 for Democrats in the House (If I counted correctly - I may off by one or two).. that would be about 28% of house Democrats who voted for the resolution.


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