onegoodmove

re: the reagan doctrine. great article. i can't believe that the great yitzchak asimov woould make such a logical mistep:"But let's take the reverse of the Reagan Doctrine. If no one who disbelieves in God and in an afterlife can possibly be trusted, it seems to follow that those who do believe in God and in an afterlife can be trusted."

but if he hadn't, i guess there wouldn't have been an article.:)

Jonathan, that's exactly what I though when I read the Asimov article--if you say that you cannot trust the word of an atheist, that does not logically entail that you should trust the word of all theists. There are a variety of reasons why someone should not be trusted, atheism being only one possible reason.

Mill actually gave one of the best critiques of the idea that the testimony of atheists should not be trusted. If you refuse to accept the testimony of atheists, what you are doing in practice is refusing to trust people who are honest about their lack of belief. There may be plenty of other decievers who claim to believe but do not. In fact because atheism is not socially favored there are probably a lot of people like this. So the maxim becomes "Do not trust the word of those who are likely the most honest atheists."

re:israels' use of cluster munitions.

"We’ve investigated cluster munitions in Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq, but we’ve never seen use of cluster munitions that was so extensive and dangerous to civilians,” said Steve Goose, director of the arms division at Human Rights Watch. “The issue is not whether Israel used the American cluster munitions lawfully, but what the US is going to do about it.”

don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the use or even the existance of these horrible things. but if "the issue" isn't legality, what is it, exactly? could it be that israel is the worlds' "canary in a coal mine" regarding the "morals" of war? and does this say more about the world, or about israel?

two smaller points: "...leaving behind an estimated 1 million dud submunitions that are still at risk of exploding." this number seems WAY high, given the price of the munitions, the number of "bomblets" per warhead and the length of the war. i'd like to see some proof. and 2., the article claims israel has not provided maps detailing its' use of this devils' technology. it has- months ago.

I agree with Isaac Asimov that the Reagan Doctrine certainly is depressing:

… "No one who disbelieves in God and in an afterlife can possibly be trusted." If this is true (and it must be if the president says so), then people are just naturally dishonest and crooked and downright rotten. In order to keep them from lying and cheating every time they open their mouths, they must be bribed or scared out of doing so. They have to be told and made to believe that if they tell the truth and do the right thing and behave themselves, they will go to heaven and get to plunk a harp and wear the latest design in halos. They must also be told and made to believe that if they lie and steal and run around with the opposite sex, they are going to hell and will roast over a brimstone fire forever. …

…Instead, according to the Reagan Doctrine, anytime we meet someone who pays his debts, or hands in a wallet he found in the street, or stops to help a blind man cross the road, or tells a casual truth -- he's just buying himself a ticket to heaven, or else canceling out a demerit that might send him to hell. It's all a matter of good, solid business practice; a matter of turning a spiritual profit and of responding prudently to spiritual blackmail.”

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What’s even more depressing is how Asimov concludes his cynical take on the Reagan Doctrine and how it does not apply to God-fearing people such as the Muslim leaders in the Middle East or the Ku Klux Clan in USA.

Is he implying that USA should go back to its roots for separating faith from the state?

Or is he lamenting that religion or religious affiliation is no longer seen as a matter of principle but rather as matters of political convenience or affiliation?

I agree with Isaac Asimov that the Reagan Doctrine certainly is depressing:

… "No one who disbelieves in God and in an afterlife can possibly be trusted." If this is true (and it must be if the president says so), then people are just naturally dishonest and crooked and downright rotten. In order to keep them from lying and cheating every time they open their mouths, they must be bribed or scared out of doing so. They have to be told and made to believe that if they tell the truth and do the right thing and behave themselves, they will go to heaven and get to plunk a harp and wear the latest design in halos. They must also be told and made to believe that if they lie and steal and run around with the opposite sex, they are going to hell and will roast over a brimstone fire forever. … …Instead, according to the Reagan Doctrine, anytime we meet someone who pays his debts, or hands in a wallet he found in the street, or stops to help a blind man cross the road, or tells a casual truth -- he's just buying himself a ticket to heaven, or else canceling out a demerit that might send him to hell. It's all a matter of good, solid business practice; a matter of turning a spiritual profit and of responding prudently to spiritual blackmail.”

========

What’s even more depressing is how Asimov concludes his cynical take on the Reagan Doctrine and how it does not apply to God-fearing people such as the Muslim leaders in the Middle East or the Ku Klux Clan in USA.

Is he implying that USA should go back to its roots for separating faith from the state?

Or is he lamenting that religion or religious affiliation is no longer seen as a matter of principle but rather as matters of political convenience or affiliation?

“… The United Nations Mine Action Coordination Center has estimated that Israel fired as many as four million cluster submunitions, and that up to one million may not have detonated. Israel fired many of the munitions with its Multiple Launch Rocket System, which can fire 12 rockets in a minute…” Israel Orders Investigation of Bomb Use in Lebanon By GREG MYRE 21 Nov 06

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/world/middleeast/21mideast.html?th&emc=th

Israel’s intensive use of cluster bombs debunks past Israeli claims of precision bombing or rocket attacks to avoid civilian casualties. “…Israel has told the State Department that it originally tried targeted strikes against Hezbollah rocket sites, but those proved ineffective.” < <

… Heavy use of cluster bombs was tried instead, to kill or maim Hezbollah fighters manning the launchers. Israeli commanders employed cluster weapons because they suspected that they would flee after firing their rockets. Even those attacks failed to stop the rockets barrages…”

• Israel May Have Violated Arms Pact, U.S. Says By DAVID S. CLOUD and GREG MYRE

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/world/middleeast/28cluster.html?ex=1327640400&en=d2b85edaa9bf6e8d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss