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Silence is No Longer an Option

Sean Penn, Jane Fonda, Susan Sarandon, and Tim Robbins speak at anti-war rally. This is the first time Jane has spoken at an anti-war rally in 34 years. Welcome back Jane, and thanks; your voice still rings true.




Quicktime Video 21 MB : 14'59
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Comments

Is it just me, or did anyone else get flashbacks to 'Team America' from this? :)

durka durka.

Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion regardless of their history, but I cannot consciously reconcile being anti-war with the support of Hanoi Jane marching abrest everyone else against this war. I would prefer she fly to Anbar with a camera crew and discuss the return of the Caliphate over tea and crumpets with the Jihadis. I'm sorry, I know full well that she's apologized for that, I'm just fearful that people will make the same mistake she did, not realizing that there's a line which can be crossed in being anti-war. Hopefully her presence serves as a palpable reminder.

When will progressives/liberals/Democrats start learning how to use the media?

Didn't it occur to anyone at this peace rally that bringing in Sarandon, Penn and especially Fonda that this would actually HURT their effort? I understand that these people are very passionate and know the facts and are good speakers, but none of that will come through on the nightly news soundbite. The media will only mention that there was a rally and celebrities were there - and the focus will be on the celebrity names and not the issue.

Why not keep the celebrities at home and let the rally be more focused. Have it consist of more average people who the "masses" can relate to, like injured soldiers or their families?

I'll say it again: This rally will only make more people talk about Jane Fonda (mostly how much they hate her) than talk about the miserable situation in Iraq.

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wow, hanoi jane is BACK! she obviously has so much honesty, compassion and put-yer-money-where-yer-mouth-is that i don't have the heart to argue with her specific points. (you can all breathe a sigh of relief). but she does mention the differences between iraq and vietnam, when most anti-war people are talking about the similarities, and i wanted to take the oppurtunity to mention an "elephant in the room" issue: the main difference is one which, strangely, almost no one mentions:THERE IS NO DRAFT. no one is even talking about bringing back the draft. americas army is fully volunteer. many recruits sign up for economic reasons (i don't know the stats) but all of them know what they're getting into. the main reason for the popularity and ultimate success of the anti viet nam movement was, i believe, the draft. when the rich white kids have to go, then you'll see some movement. also, no one seems to ask WHY there is no draft. could it be because even the most war mongering neoconservatives can't make a convincing case case for iraq being a real threat to america without exposing american elite buisiness interests there? its easy to see why 9/11 conspiracy theories abound.

"many recruits sign up for economic reasons (i don't know the stats) but all of them know what they're getting into"

I agree with Jonathan's post - except for the above quote.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't many of the soldiers that are overseas members of the National Guard?

You know, the National Guard that advertises itself as "making money for college while you give up your weekends"? I'm sure that many of the National Guardsmen who have been in Iraq on and off over the last 3 YEARS did not think they were getting into this. They probably thought (foolishly) that the National Guard in a war situation was for GUARDING THE NATION like they were used for when Bush joined during Vietnam - not for being sent to fight overseas.

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good point, chris, i stand corrected. my dad was in the national gaurd and narrowly missed being sent to korea.

The pushback would be even more intense if there was a draft, but Chris is right. The National Guard membership is drawn from the middle class and has already become a driving force in opposition to the war.

Why are actors standing up to say what elected politicians are not saying? I cannot understand why some member of Congress has not spoken as powerfully as Susan Sarandon against this vile war which was entered into under false pretences.

Okay, so if the likes of Sarandon and Robbins are hurting the anti-war movement, I guess I'll just sit on my hands and wait for some more mainstream actors to stand up and speak. Jesus, can we not just be happy that someone is making noise about this?!

And "Hanoi Jane"? Seriously? Seriously? She made a mistake--and openly admits her error-thirty years ago and you still can't get over it? Please.

Pica,

My point wasn't that celebrities can't voice their opinions. It's that our dumb and lazy media will only report on the celebrities, make THEM the focus of their news reports, and then the rally's true message gets lost.

Also, I think Jane Fonda's presence ends up making some people hate the protesters - instead of listening to the message of how screwed up this war has become. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that just won't forgive the actions of someone 30 years ago (ask Ted Kennedy).

Unfortunately, I have to agree with chrisM70 on this one. I can think of one network that will loop footage of Jane in Hanoi, over and over again.

And of course, it doesn't matter that Sarandon, Penn and Robbins were 100% correct a few years ago about the invasion of Iraq, they were tagged then and remain tagged now as 'terrorist lovers' or some such ridiculous label. Collective amnesia does not seem to apply to guttural reactions of hatred and fear.

With that said, I'm still glad they're there, the media will downplay and distort the whole affair anyway, Sean Penn or no Sean Penn, even as cowards like Hillary Clinton will ignore the rally and the voice of the majority of the american people.

Speaking of the majority of the american people, didn't they support this fiasco when it all started? However, I can think of two people who didn't (that is to say, whom I trust):

Gimme Gore and Obama in '08!

And three cheers for John Conyers, while we're at it.

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I like the challenged trumpet player in the background. It's like watching Dudley Do-Right & Friends.

Is this a culture or what?

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interesting point, btw, aboout bush having been a national guardsman. i understand he had quite a few "issues" with that experience. wonder if this has anything to do with his willingness to send his former bretheren-in-arms overseas.

"She made a mistake--and openly admits her error-thirty years ago and you still can't get over it? Please."

If there were declared war, I believe she'd have been put in prison or shot when she came back. Regardless of the illigitimacy of our actions in Vietnam, she mingled with the enemy upon her own free will. She's allowed to voice her opinion, but there is no point of enlightenment where you can reconcile treason with being against tyranny. She's in Brutus and Judas territory.

"And of course, it doesn't matter that Sarandon, Penn and Robbins were 100% correct a few years ago about the invasion of Iraq"

When you are a contrarian, it is very easy to be 'correct', particularly about complex issues.

Bear in mind that several of these same people were also vocally against the war in Afghanistan. Strange how they've dropped that topic.

Disregarding the disgusting way that people are re-embracing the traitor Hanoi Jane, people like Tim Robbins just make me laugh. His entire political position? "Peace, not war!" and "Who would Jesus bomb!". So well thought-out there, Tim!

Until there is a better 'protest' plan than just 'bring them home', what is the point? Do these people really believe that 'bring them home' fixes anything? What happens when they have to go back - which they will?

"She made a mistake--and openly admits her error-thirty years ago and you still can't get over it?"

Everybody is sorry when they get caught. That does not exonerate them.

The woman knows if she pushes her anti-American stance of the past, she'll be shunned. So she just makes a token apology and takes up the same ignorant position as always, but with more later-life coolness. Pretty transparent.

Posted by onegoodmove on January 28, 2007 12:00 AM

Thank you very onegoodmove for posting a download link I appreciate it very much. The mov file you supplied will remain a wonderful souvenir for years to come.

I couldn't have made my point any better...

Notice how many posts here are about how much they HATE Jane Fonda and/or Robbins/Sarandon?

This completely takes people's attention from the real issue - Americans and Iraqis are dying overseas because of an unjustified (and extremely expensive) war.

Chris your point is an empty platitude. Bitching about Hanoi Jane being given time at an anti-war rally, which I otherwise identify with, does not preclude my studying the struggle of the Iranian Reform movement, the Civil War in Iraq, the crumbling Democracy in Lebanon, the corruption of the Neo-conservative misadventure in Iraq, or the rise of the Saudis one iota. If you think Hanoi Jane is drawing attention away from the importance of some worthless, meaningless, pretentious public gathering that's really no more than a pep rally where one can get the digits of some loose hippie bitches (as per Ali G), while scoring some phat gaunja and getting on national TV, then all I can say is that you highly overestimate the façade of demonstrations. If anything, bitching about Hanoi Jane draws even more attention than is warrented to this pointless self-congratulatory rally that's tantamount to political masturbation.

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i think people should be cut some slack if they're fundamentally decent, though not particularly amusing, like jane fonda, or fundamentally amusing, thought not particularly decent, like abbie hoffman (may his memory be blessed). the real problem here is the bush administration, who are neither decent nor amusing.

at least bill clinton was funny.

TiesThatBlind, your post really shows a core of self-righteous smugness, of passive-aggressive, deep-rooted anger that attracts the underdeveloped mind; particularly minds that lack empathy. (Sorry again about the plagiarism .)

Oh man, that trumpet has got to go...

Dionysus,

I don't think there is anything empty about my comments. I feel that her MERE PRESENCE at any event protesting the administration's policies and/or handling of the war is a distraction.

We can argue about whether protests/rallies are effective or not, but that's another issue. The protest/rally was created TO SHOW OPPOSITION TO THE WAR. It would be more effective if the speakers/participants did not distract from that important message.

Dionysus, from reading your comments, I can't really figure out what your position is other than a hatred of "Hanoi Jane" and "hippies". Talk about pointless.

What is all this vitriol against Jane Fonda. We were marching in the streets chanting "Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win." Have you forgotten? I am sorry to say that the US government was the enemy of peace and national soverignity at that time, not North Vietnam. Jane may have pissed off a lot of people but she was right none the less.

Chris -

It amuses me that you're frustrated by your inability to label me. Don't try, really, you'll only amuse me more. People on this board have accused me of being every slot on the spectrum, one should think I'm a mere contrarian :)

"I feel that her MERE PRESENCE at any event protesting the administration's policies and/or handling of the war is a distraction."

Oh I don't care if you think it's a distraction, it's not, and she's allowed to say her dumbass comments and make peace with the demons in her closet by calling them "lies" and justifying it all by projecting her shame onto Il Principe Bush, and I'm allowed to bitch about her. There's no god damn honor any more. Seriously.

Yes I know she was protesting against dishonorable people, but she did it in a dishonorable way. I'm a lover of the classics if you'll notice my comparing her to Brutus above. I feel she should have run herself through with a claymore sword for the dishonor she brought upon herself and her country. But "courage" has lost much of its mean so that it is seen in people who spit in the face of their own shame and make a spectacle of themselves.

You say this has distracted people, who has it distracted? Go ask a bunch of people savvy on things political if Hanoi Jane speaking at a rally for the first time since before her exercise videos has distracted them from the truth.

IMO you can get any worthless clown to speak at a rally and there's no loss in substance. Pauly Shore would have had more to say than anybody at that rally beyond Hanoi Jane and with as much if not more virtue and integrity. It was a freakin circus. It's a party and a chance for celebrities to show their conscience and their politics on their sleeve in vulgar ways. They're a mob, to be manipulated. Hanoi Jane et al. think they're the manipulators, the joke is on them.

Dionysus, First off, you seem more angry than amused. It's just a discussion, no reason for you to assume I'm trying to label you.

Secondly, you said, "Go ask a bunch of people savvy on things political if Hanoi Jane speaking at a rally for the first time since before her exercise videos has distracted them from the truth."

I don't know how much more plainly I can put this, but the problem is not convincing "politically savvy" people - it's convincing the UNSAVVY American. The kind who don't really know anything about politics,listen to idiots like Rush Limbaugh and believe in ghosts and UFOs.
They are the ones who need to be made aware of just what a mess our country has been placed in because of our current incompetent Executive Branch.

It only confuses the issue by bringing in such a polarizing figure such as Ms. Fonda to speak, and causes people to rant on and on about Fonda's activites more than 30 years ago.

Maybe there is some way to justify Hanoi Jane's actions on a purely intellectual level, he said betraying lack of confidence, but certainly they were in terrible taste and emotionally they really stink. Maybe Nixon was a dick, and we should not have been there, but that does not make the North Vietnamese Communists nice guys to go hang out and have your picture taken with. Pica, I think you are minimizing this. Hint: She posed on an enemy tank. Those guys on the tank might have shot American soldiers. Okay, she is still an American in name, so she has a right to her opinion, but seriously should she ever be a public figure in the anit-war movement? A lot of old people just don't realize that Communism is way out of fashion right now, and a lot of us Democrats just don't want to tolerate Communists among us any more. If you have Communist leanings, you are a Communist, not a Democrat, so join the Communist party, and let us anti-war Democrats have our own deal without having to be associated with Jane Fonda and Joe Stalin.

Chris -

I'm not angry at all, especially not with you, don't be offended by my hot words. I just am awestruck by the depravity of political mobs, and the only thing worse than those are political boogeymen. Hanoi Jane is the left's Kissinger. So when you combine the two I really have to shit all over them both and laugh at any sheep who rolls over and accepts her as a resilient anti-establishment hallmark of justice and democracy. She had forsaken her country in a naive attempt at altruism, and it was by virtue of our decadance alone that we permitted her to soak in the benefits of our society with a quick apology.

And quit trying to hope for the masses, there's nothing a political rally can do to enlighten the mob. Those enraptured by masse demonstrations are group think dim wits and will march up Goering's ass if there was free apfelstrudel. If you want a virtuous public, you have take Jefferson's advice and have a highly educated public. Little you can do there mate.

“What is all this vitriol against Jane Fonda. We were marching in the streets chanting "Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win." Have you forgotten? I am sorry to say that the US government was the enemy of peace and national soverignity at that time, not North Vietnam. Jane may have pissed off a lot of people but she was right none the less.”

North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. Their army had cut a supply trail through Cambodia, through which trucks full troops traveled everyday to designated staging points for infiltration across the South Vietnamese border. During their brief takeover of Hue, the NVA and VC "purged" the city of anyone who had worked for the government. So tell me, who was violating national sovereignty. Who was the enemy of peace, besides Marxist traitors and fifth columns such as you and Jane Fonda, the one who stood smiling on a Soviet made Anti-aircraft gun that was intended to kill American pilots. What about the US POWs who were being tortured by the peace loving North Vietnamese? But I guess with people like you chanting "Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, the NLF is gonna win." I shouldn’t be shocked that such treachery is overlooked by you.

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