Wow that undercover mosque is scary, people are so easily brainwashed they listen to any jackass with a beard...you know your fucking up when you make christians look semi normal.

Brian is right, that Dispatches video scared the sh!t out of me. And I was already paranoid of fundamentalist loonies. No wonder Mohammed doesn't like to have his face seen - he doesn't want to be associated with the crazies that worship him. In it's essence all religious fundamentalists share the same view that woman are to be oppressed, gays denounced and religious law enforced. I find that outlets like this and the small but vocal group of atheist and rational people are the one shining hope humanity seems to have of ever keeping institutionalized ignorance that is religion from dragging us into another dark age of oppression, violence and cultism.

Thank you again for your keen eye for such powerful information.

That undercover mosque story is unbelievable. What a load of utter rubbish. They've totally misconstrued the guy's words.. all you have to do is listen with a critical ear. He's clearly a completely fundamentalist preacher and a twit, but the video was seriously flawed in its presentation of virtually everything in it. It was meant to scare small-minded people and it obviously has. There's nothing any scarier in what the guy is saying than in what we hear daily out of our own governments, churches and corporations. You just have to listen to it in the context of what he was obviously saying, but which was not being included in the broadcast. This is fear-mongering pseudo-journalism.

This video production team could have applied the same treatment to corn flakes and have scared you all silly. Get a clue!

Rob -

Since you're erudite on matters condescending, you should be mature enough to realize most all political and especially religious oriented exposés are biased, cheaply edited and propagandistic by their very nature and shouldn't insult our intelligence by assuming we don't all get that at least a little. Yet you'd be pretty hard pressed to find actual footage of the people who make Corn Flakes advocating the legal executions of homosexuals and desire for world domination, like Salafist Imams preach on a regular basis from New Jersey to Jakarta.

That clip is indeed scary, however yes it is biased - as im sure most of the statements are taken way out of context - yes even against a 'kafir' (non-Muslim).

For the record - the word kafir itself isnt simply translated as a 'non-Muslim, or disbeliever' but thats another issue. I think ive explained that once on a prior comment on this website a while ago.

Moreover, I doubt if most of those speakers would ever advocate any violence. For a fair response to this talk (from a Muslim point of view AND directed to Muslims) check out this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7715763265765648367

For the record, I am a proud Muslim who is completely against all the Wahabi-Salafist rhetoric that self-appointed speakers preach. And no these speakers arent true scholars of Islam - I by no means am a scholar either, yet i can point out several things he has said that is completely against Islam.

And I do appreciate how the documentary makers do differentiate traditional, moderate Islam , and the Wahhabi-salafi isalm of these speakers in the video.

I highly advise you all watch CNN's latest Christiane Amanpour documentary on The War Within (Islam). It's really good at explaining why this extremist rhetoric is becoming so popular in Britain.

Hey Norm, can you get some clips of that for your website?

"Moreover, I doubt if most of those speakers would ever advocate any violence."

Yes, that's because they can't advocate violence in the UK. The brave souls who do advocate violence are either imprisoned or sent home. But all Salafists would gleefully partake in violence as soon as they have some semblance of power over Westerners. Stalin's purges after he came to power were random, but everything the Salafist Imams preach against today is what they'll be stoning/beheading people for tomorrow if they ever gain power in any soverign section of any state in the world. Take their word for it, don't think they're lying when they say exactly who will be hanging from street lights. This is a little hyperbolic as pertaining to the UK, the good people of Britain would never permit such an insolent band of dogs to take power (one could hope), but this is very much a reality in other parts of the world, with the same Salafist, Qutbist, Deobandi filth.

That Dispatches report is pretty crazy...

I just watched "jonestown" and saw some interesting paralells.

Dionysus - I intended my tone to counter the fear that the video was made to provoke in its audience - and had provoked in the two posts prior to mine. Judging by the remaining posts, it worked.

The video is certainly based on true events, real quotes and many facts, but it is put together in a way that does the viewer a complete disservice. If we're ever going to be truly tolerant, then it requires that we tolerate our real fear/s... and not those directed and produced purely for scare-value.

I value the choice of clips and links placed on this website and come here every day for my morning catch-up... but that clip was out of character for OGM... it belongs on sites that preach hate and mis-use production and documentary values to instill false fear. The video is no better in that regard than the chap it was primarly about.

I dont really see how that video was so out of context, maybe it didnt stress the fact enough that most muslims arent at all like that, and its a small % twisting the religion but obviously some are, just like people who are in the KKK, or some christians or whatever hate group are like that. But yeah i saw that Christiane Amanpour documentary on The War Within (Islam) on cnn it was pretty interesting too. And rob make a video about corn flakes thats as scary as fumdamental religion and ill give you a million dollars. Its more scary that people actually listen than the fact that people preach it. If fundamenties arent scary to you, pull your head out of your ass, of course im not shaking in fear, and pissing myself, or even really thinking about it later, but its dangerous to all normal people. Im scared for society. that shit is a virus. Eventually there will be more terrorist attacks in britain and the u.s. and its people like that of any religion who will inspire them. and our shitty foreign policy wont help.

"If we're ever going to be truly tolerant, then it requires that we tolerate our real fear/s... "

Tolerance is an issue of permitting someone you disagree with to live and perhaps have rights. There's no question that we in the west have given safe haven, rights of free speech and religion to Salafists and Islamists. (Although we've cracked down substancially on the latter for charity ties to terror groups, known or unkown, that's more often than not just common sense). There is little more we can do to promote tolerance for extremists who despise Western Civilization and yet live amongst us and promote our envelopment and eventual downfall. We can't all have a giant hug and show them the light. They are from a different culture. You can't keep projecting our cultural values in other people. They're from a civilization that has from its inception had a section that was purist, originalist, "Salafist" conservative backwards-looking violent element that at times condones brute force to accomplish its political goals. This is a dawn of a new era in that this conservative backwards element is in the heart of its enemy - that is us, our lands.

One could analogize fundamentalist, radical and extremist Islam in a great many ways that are minorly deficient, such as the Klan, the Nazis, Communists, Saccho and Venzeti type anarchist terrorists, Kharijites, Almoravids, the Huns, the Mongols, the creature from the Alien movies. The simple fact is, they are extremists and have a violent dogma that is antithetical and anathema to our civilization.

What video do you propose we make of these people? One inherent contradiction is that some of them believe that film is haraam because it steals your soul, and on the day of judgement all of the creations of artists will come to haunt them. (Ten Commandments, graven images). A proper representation of these people is from their philosophical background, start with ibn Hanbali, ibn Taimiyyah, ibn Wahhab, Sayyed Qutb. The strain of Islam that Osama bin Laden and Hamas come from is not very far from these people.

Religion is a constant target on this page so I guess what Rob is trying to say is that any criticism of Islam makes you intolerant. How can such hateful things about women, gays, and our democratic society ever be put in context? If there are people working within our society to undermine our democratic institutions and processes, don’t we have the right to know who these people are? This report presented a factual portrayal of some fairly high-profile religious leaders. The reporters are under no ethical obligation to show moderate Muslims—that’s not what their piece was about. Instead of objecting to a work of journalism you should be outraged over the medieval views being preached in the name of Islam.

And BTW, Saudi Arabia is one of the most despicable regimes on the planet and it is good to see their perfidy exposed.