« links for 2007-01-30 | Main | Keith Olbermann - Special Comment »

God's Friends Are Nuts

Evidence the Evangelical, we don't like science crowd, is seriously deluded and abusing children to boot. You want an example of child abuse John Kasich and Fox News, take a look at this. The clip is from the HBO Friends of God Documentary currently playing on HBO don't miss it.

Quicktime Video 8.6 MB : 6'44
Quicktime 7 required
This file is available for download here.
Ctrl-Click and 'Download Linked File' (Mac)
or Rt-Click and 'Save Target As' (PC) the link above.



Man, this is absolutely terrifying. The only glimmer of hope I can see from this, is the posibility that these poor, brainwashed kids will eventually realize that they have been lied to (in the same way kids eventually realize that they have been lied to about other things, like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny), and thus, the worse and more outrageous the lie, the better their chances are of spotting the lie...

But man, that is really depessing. Abuse, indeed.

If one believes that a divine being created the Universe, there is no evidence one way or the other on this matter. BUT, that being said, there is TONS of evidence that evolution happened, that it happened over millions of years, and so on. To ignore this evidence and yet refute the claims it supports, and cite the refutation as truth simply because it is written in a very old book is both irresponsible and immoral. Any benevolent deity, if such a one existed, would looks upon those who spread these lies to their children, and say unto them, "Woe! Woe! Woe to the creationists, for they worship a false God, a simple God, a God incapable of bringing into existence the majesty of creation." I counted at LEAST eleven logical fallacies in these seven minutes, things which are NOT an issue of faith, nor simply an issue of ignorance, but an issue of intentional stupidity. "HE WHO HAS EARS, LET HIM HEAR."

((I use evangelical language above because I believe this is the best way to communicate to those who believe this that what they do is wrong, even in a biblical sense, so to speak. Also, though I could not list the logical fallacies on a first viewing, I certainly could upon request.))


well said, anon. and don't worry, a lot of posters here are well versed in the principles of logic. not that we always stick to them...

Sad, very very sad. I live in San Diego, and i have never seen anything of this sort in my life. Of course the company you keep determine your experiences, and I have never had a friend that was a hardcore Christian.

What I'm wondering is how widespread is such belief and indoctrination? And what does it say about america that such things happen here? Do those children on the large grow up believing the junk science they were taught in these religious schools?

This video made my day really sad. I mean, poor kids, being brain washed that young, looks like Mao and his little red book. I mean when I hear that "believes" are scientificaly proved I am scared. The images with the dinausaurs used like horses are really scaring.

I live in France and I don't think it will ever happen in here. But seing that feels like reading a very scaring science fiction book. I know it doesn't apply to the entire american population, but still it scares me a lot. When I see all the young people (because the old ones won't count soon), I don't know what to think.

How can we so easily confuse faith & science?

Once again, this video really depresses me. I feel stuck overseas, I really would like to meet these people because I can not believe people are that stupid and narrow minded.

Absolutely sickening.

And goth creationists? WTF is that?!?! I've never heard of such a thing.

This really is child abuse, as Dawkins says.

You guys are fucked. Give up. It's over. America is done.

I literally got a little nauseated from watching that video. I am so thankful to live in Canada where that crap is kept to the bare minimum.

No wonder people are reluctant to discuss their religious and personal beliefs, if they are indoctrinated at such an early age, and are related to so much 'hapiness' and 'fun'.

And adult christians get all upset that they are being persecuted! It makes me sick...


i came to that conclusion 20 years ago, anon, and moved overseas. (to someplace even more fucked:)). i was a bit premature. perhaps you are too. america has overcome worse than a little religious weirdness. what do you suppose "tom/kat" are going to teach their kids? and they're going to have much more power to win hearts and minds than the sad automotons in the clip. they've been around, in one form or another, forever. of course, they used to be the ruling elite:)

Can we send a copy of this to that fox news shit head?

Ironically, that Ken Ham fellow looks an awful like those ape pictures in his slideshow . . .

Suscepter, You live in San Diego and want to know how widespread this stuff is? Go to the El Cajon/Santee area, where you can visit the Creation museum at the Institute for Creation Research.

This is the atmosphere in which I was raised, although today it has intensified became of the availability of media. I knew something was amiss when my 7th grade science teacher, who was also our minister at Church of God, told me in response to my question: 'who was before G*d?' We're not equipped to think nor understand that mystery. I'm pretty sure it was that moment which changed me.

What freaked me was the kid who wanted to win a Nobel Prize for creationism research. Now that is delusion.

Emo creationists? How will they slice their wrists if suicide is a sin?

On a more serious note, this is absolutely terrifying and makes me glad I live in Europe. This makes me really, really thankful for my youth. I can't imagine my parents doing this, even if they did force me into christianity.

Since Yaweh never bothered to dictate the word 'dinosaur' to his hebrew scribes a couple of thousand years ago, then dinosaurs never existed.


Then some poor preteen goes on to say that SCIENCE is NOT presenting BOTH sides of the DEBATE!!!


Yaweh also never bothered to dictate the word 'microorganism' to his scribes, yet give a fundamentalist anything from cancer to a common cold, and off they rush to get modern medical treatment. Maybe they believe there's an angel's breath in every antibiotic pill, or Christ's blood on chemotherapy treatment.

Cherry picking hypocrisy, pure and simple.

Back in the days when cholera was a leading cause of death, fundamentalists would say that "It's God's will". Actually, it was the lack of proper sewage systems, unless, of course, God's will was to have people shitting upstream. Did the purely faith-based contingent contribute any rational solution to STOP the suffering? Hell no.

Always a couple of centuries behind, these people, loudly pleading to be brushed aside and ignored while others do the REAL work.

So I guess one thing to ask is: What can we, the angry masses do about this? We've got our heavy hitters like Dawkins out there launching the big debates. But what can we, the sad and angry average joe do about this? Start debates outside Churches on Sunday? Make more t-shirts?

Surely we can organize and get something done!

Frightening, very frightening. Makes me tink of the nazis who started brainwashing the kids (hitlerjügend), margenalizing the intellectuals and scientists, and we all know how it finished. I wonder why the moderates of the christian church aren't more reactive to this?

How did he get those pictures of my grandparents?!

"So I guess one thing to ask is: What can we, the angry masses do about this?"

And it gets me to another thought. Isn't television partly responsible for that? The limit between the "virtual" and the "real" world is more and more vague, unclear. Less and less people read newspapers, know the real facts, less and less people have a real opinion, one that they have forged themselves. That obviousely makes them easy targets for endoctrination programs like in this example.

... these retarded Americans are unbelievable, they make the 6-day theory appear like sound science.

"God said it, I believe it! That settles it" ...SIEG HEIL??!... isnt that next?

Like all the others here my stomach dropped while watching this.

what can you say?

When will people realize A) the bible is a work of man B) it is full of inconsistency and is a work of fiction C) it isn't even the oldest scripture out there. D)their capacity for thought is severely limited

Just because we teach evolution in schools doesn't make it a fact BUT its the best explanantion w e have with the evidence out there. Turning around and saying God wrote the bible and therefore it must be true is insane. I'm all for spirituality but man these people think like GW and that's scary.

Oh by the way thanks to indoctrinating them at an early age. It's nice to know children are being encouraged to think these days...

Mmm, even sarcasm doesn't alleviate the shock.


jib writes "A) the bible is a work of man B) it is full of inconsistency and is a work of fiction..."- actually, its the fact that the bible is full of inconsistancies that keeps me wondering. (i refer here to the "o.t."-only testament, as jewish fundamentalists describe it). any third rate novelist is capable of producing a work unmarred by such inconsistancies. so basically, whenever i meet someone who can't keep a story straight in prose, i tend to worship them. :)

God, this is great! I love this clip! When I played it, I realized that as a Petroleum Engineering student, I will NOT have alot of competition for jobs from a large segment of our population. THANK YOU, EVANGELICALS! GOD HAS A BIG SYRINGE, AND HE INJECTED THE OIL INTO THE EARTH! HALLELUJAH (sp?).

Religion is almost solely the indoctrination and programming of children.

Alot of people lose their religion when the learn a bit of science and find out how the world really is...

They will never stop attacking science and evolution.

Being also from Europe (Germany), I feel pretty much like 'Yoh' above: While many of the videos you post in your blog often make me smile a bit, this one here is perhaps the most scary of the ones I've watched so far. In thirty or fourty years from now, a few of these kids may well be these who determine the country's destiny.

Please excuse the comparison, but the indoctrination methods of these Evangelic teachers shown in the clip really remind me of these of a communist regime, of Islamic fundamentalists of ... you name it!

Isn't it ironic somehow that extremists worldwide - who deeply hate and disdain each other! - rely on the very same methods ... ?

Terrible. I don't know what else to say.


So much of what is wrong with this world I find can be laughed off, the hypocrisy, the lies.... they are all funny on some level but this isn't. It contains all of the fundamentals of comedy but is far too real.


America has always been a religious country but I just have to wonder if its religious institutions became more of an embarrassing circus ever since they took to the airwaves. While, I'm inclined to think so, I doubt I can convince anyone here of that.

All I can say is that I used to watch religious TV and marvel at how pathetic and campy the whole affair was: body builders bending steel for Jesus; Dr. Gene Scott spewing expletives into the camera (I miss that guy); big hair everywhere; so-called "laughing churches"; Mexican exorcisms. Pretty scary and weird stuff but I enjoyed its forays into the surreal, if you will. It was Jerry Springer before Jerry Springer.

At the same time, I know of sober, considerate, dare I say "intellectual" Christians who venerate a pretty sturdy emotional maturity. I could take my video camera and my FinalCut software and edit a story together about them but it would NEVER reach the public profile of the colorful freak show side of religion. It's a function of story-telling and being human.

The thing about this site is that I GET IT and I'm entertained and informed by it, but I also know better than to use these examples as a blunt instrument against Christians (or against the notion of spirituality in general) because, while cathartic, that's just a bit too easy and scattershot. And while it would be gratifying to attach myself wholly to something as hip as ridiculing Christians in America, I'd be dishonest in disavowing that I know there's a different character to many (here comes that dirty word again) religious people who quietly practice what they believe without the sideshow that plays so well in documentary.

TV culture is the last vestige of community but it yanks people's emotions around in extremely distorted ways.

I do not know to what extent European countries discourage this type of religious idiocy, but just like it is unfair to pick on just the Christians, it is unfair to pick on the retarded Americans. Albeit more progressibe in some respects, European countries have their own share of religious problems. Just look at Catholisism in Italy and the Anglican church in Britain (although I'm not sure if Britain is necessarily grouped with European countries). Having experienced Communist indoctrination from an early age, I was fortunate to have parents who instilled in me the value of education and knowledge. Part of the problem that enables the brainwashing in the clip is the lack of proper education, often because these children are sent off to religious schools. As one woman in the clip remarked, it's just easier to explain to the children and makes more sense when one looks in the bible and correlates the flood with the fossil discoveries. Many fo these parents simply can't explain radioactive dating, among other things, to their 10 year olds, especially when the parents don't understand those concepts themselves. It's a vicious circle.

Damn Norm, Bill Gates was on Stewart's show, and you give us this? You could have offered us both, with a connecting theme: ID is real science, Vista is a real OS.

As soon as these "scientist" figure out a way to colonize mars i'm out of here. Complete garbage!

There's a reason creationists have to preach their unscientific BS to children; if they get too old they may get an education and dismiss their tripe before they finish a sentence.

The one kid who said he was going to be a biochemist and get a Nobel prize will never amount to much. The creationists have millions of dollars and don't publish any scientific research, heck, they don't do any scientific research.

A creationist has to deny physics, chemistry, biology, paleontology, geology, astronomy and practically every other scientific theory to believe in their nonsense. They are a laughing stock. Any degree they do have should be stamped with big red letters, "VOID".

We need some sort Augustine revolution lest christianity falls to the dark ages with this modern rubbish. there is an important debate worth reading.

You guys are a little slow. I got out of the US in 2000. Best decision of my life.

Never mind the Gates-Stewart video, Norm. You were right to overlook it: I saw it elsewhere and it's a yawner as Stewart goes. The only funny bit was Stewart asking what the F12 key does, while the poor billionaire from Redmond is trying to pump his "impactful" new OS. (Note to Uncle Bill and all corporate dweebs: "impactful" is NOT a word, goddamit).

Holy Crap!! This is pure child abuse. These evilgelicals deserve to be executed.

fritz is right. We do have to remember that this video clip is ultimately a ready for TV documentary. While what it depicts certainly happens, it is important to remember that the religious people who honestly believe in this are ultimately good people. should we make fun of them and hold them in contempt? Absolutely! because to do less is to trivialize their stupidity and the harm they do to their children and society at large. but at the same time we should not think of them as on par with the crazy lunatics running around in iraq and other places of the world. For as long as man has been in this earth people have believed in ridiculous things. There are many Europeans who will condemn the christians on that video as roobes, and then in the next moment argue that their horoscope is totally them. My point is, people believe in weird stuff, and while we dont have to respect that, we should not think of people as evil just because they are easily fooled.

"The thing about this site is that I GET IT and I'm entertained and informed by it, but I also know better than to use these examples as a blunt instrument against Christians (or against the notion of spirituality in general) because, while cathartic, that's just a bit too easy and scattershot. And while it would be gratifying to attach myself wholly to something as hip as ridiculing Christians in America, I'd be dishonest in disavowing that I know there's a different character to many (here comes that dirty word again) religious people who quietly practice what they believe without the sideshow that plays so well in documentary."

I second this! "Hear-hear," Fritz!

My parents brought me up in the Presbyterian Church and were part of the "sober, considerate, and 'intellectual'" constituency of that sect. In fact, I am one of the few people I know personally that had an overwhelmingly positive experience growing up in the church - as children we were allowed (even encouraged) to ask the "big questions," and while the church's answers didn't always fit, they certainly didn't shy away or deny that there are severe inconsistencies and logical gaps in traditional Christian doctrine. I recently had a discussion about the "cherry-picking" of moral tenets from the Bible with a pastor at my church and he (graciously) told me that he doesn't have all of the answers, and that he wrestles with these questions as I do.

This is all to say that we should be careful from taking a whitewashed approach to criticizing Christians and make sure that we are being prudent and discerning in rooting out the really "bad" stuff - the tenets of Evangelism that promote hatred, the denial of scientific evidence, etc.

These ideas seem to be coming out as kind of a mish-mash, but I'll end with the reason I started writing - I second what Fritz said, and wholeheartedly!

Scary-- this is like the holocaust deniers...

Comming home from school today, I saw a guy on his "soap box" screaming out things about jesus and such, while everybody filtered him out. Once in a while a kid would walk by and refute him. So in that sense, its kind of reassuring. But then again, I live in the Bay Area.

What really really gets me is the sheer hypocrisy. I mean, damn, the idiot speaker's shirt is probbably made of polyester (e.g. ex-million year old dinosaurs).

I just hope the kids learn the value of asking questions.

I guess you have to brain wash them when they are young otherwise someone in the croud might stand up and ask "What about Carbon dating?"

This is hilarious to me. 1st of all I find it hilarious that these guys think it is essential to believe genesis in order to be a religious person in the first place. This implies that to be a Christian one must beleive every friggin word in the bible, which is really ridiculous if you think about all the crazy shit that is in there!

Second, I find it hilarious how these parents are setting their kids up for some possibly really bad outcomes, like failing to function in society due to complete ignorance about science, or, discovering science on their own and concluding everything their parents taught them was a pile of crap! Neither seems to be a positive outcome to me.

PS: Belief in Dinosaurs of millions of years ago has long been my litmus test before entering into political or religious argument. If someone says they don't think Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, I don't waste my time arguing with them.

These people have always existed in America but until recently they were a fringe element. Then they were conscripted into the rightwing movement as foot soldiers, like the brown shirts in the European fascist era. Big business courted these religious nuts and they became the base. Not that corporate America gives a shit about religion; they just saw a large segment of society that they could easily exploit with promises of outlawing abortion, negating gay rights, advocating prayer in school, religious school tax vouchers, and support for creationist dogma. It mostly came to nothing but they gave the Christians lip service. Now these nuts have gone from the fringe into the mainstream. I shudder to think of the effect this institutionalized ignorance will have on our country.

I say let these drooling 'tards believe whatever they want. It's more sad to me than anything that in our modern world so many people reject modernity and wish to live like morons with their heads buried in the sand.

Imagine being so terrified of science and modernity that you would resort to this rejectionist madness.

And that's what it is, a collective insanity.

I feel sorry for those poor children. One day they will have to face the truth, and I wonder how they will handle that...

A word of cautionary hope.

Not all of those kids are lost. Probably about the same percentage as always. Or so I believe.

I was raised that way in low class "red neck" southern Baptist land. I would have been the kid with the quickest "correct" response to the rhetorical questions.

Within a few years, that stuff was just memory.

The point being a certain percentage of those kids will out grow that indocrination, no matter what.

Watching that clip does invite a bit of dispair, doesn't it?

born again strike again.

no morning after pill for you! we dont care if you were raped. its nice to know how much they care.

I may not agree with what they are saying but I certainly wouldn't call it child abuse. They are just teaching their children what they believe.

Hey sweet. Ken Ham. That guy is great.

O SNAP where am I again? D:

"The only glimmer of hope I can see from this, is the posibility that these poor, brainwashed kids will eventually realize that they have been lied to"

It's only a glimmer. Today these kids are brought up in ever growing, and very united communities. The support (brainwashing) they receive is incredible, the chances of being exposed to life changing events that the community can't absorb is low. In fact, now they all have scripted answers to any common arguments against their beliefs that they might encounter.

Considering that religious communities are breeding the most and growing fast, all while collecting money and using this buying power in combination with tax exempt status to increase wealth it's tough to defend against. Especially with minds armored from birth against reason.

Am I able to watch this online somewhere? I don't have HBO! Anyone know a site where I can go to watch this? Thanks!

And people think I'm crazy

Robert Altemeyer has done the research on the mindset. As I read more and more about it, I am coming to think that it will someday be thought of as a form of mental illness.

There is a lot of religious people who are not RWA, but few extremists, of any stripe.

BTW I hope that somebody will get Youtube or the like to be able to put up the whole program. As they did with this BBC Program


Is it not hypocritical to worry about "Islamo-fascism" in the madrasas, and yet not worry about Judaeo-Christian fascism in the Midrash, Kirk, and Temple? What are these people? Those aren't all American accents, Voortrekkers, Boers, Australians? Christianity is a worldwide menace, ask those "whores" in Babylon, toy soldiers in boy Bush's pretend Armageddon. Only it's real.


Oil-ahu akbar!


The truth: Creationists have the upper hand when it comes to procreation. Just look at all those little snot-noses.

Stupidity hardly runs in just one religion:

Muslims urged to refuse 'un-Islamic' vaccinations By Ruth Elkins Published: 28 January 2007

leading Islamic doctor is urging British Muslims not to vaccinate their children against diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella because they contain substances making them unlawful for Muslims to take. ...


Support this site

Google Ads

Powered by Movable Type Pro

Copyright © 2002-2017 Norman Jenson


Commenting Policy

note: non-authenticated comments are moderated, you can avoid the delay by registering.

Random Quotation

Individual Archives

Monthly Archives