So America should stop trying to lead by example?

I now have zero tolerance for opponents of global warming.

Even Will's delivery - head resting on hand - it's a tired argument, and he should stop pushing it on television.

From what could have been a focus 6 years ago, under Gore, Bush is just now going to address it. To save face, I'm sure.

Just sad.

China is more forward looking than we are.

Having goals is nice, but sorry, China is just not hitting their goals.

Can't paste the full article here, but here's a highlight:

A great wall of waste

Aug 19th 2004 | BEIJING, GUANGZHOU, HONG KONG, SHANGBA, SHANGHAI AND TAIHE From The Economist print edition

water Around half the population, or 600m people, have water supplies that are contaminated by animal and human waste.

In late July an environmental disaster occurred on the Huai river, one of China's seven big rivers. A 133km-long black and brown plume swept along the river killing millions of fish and devastating wildlife. According to Mr Pan, the catastrophe occurred because too much water had been taken from the river system, reducing its ability to clean itself. Others say that numerous factories dump untreated waste directly into the water.

As for used water, with a national daily sewage rate of around 3.7 billion tonnes, China would need 10,000 waste-water treatment plants costing some $48 billion just to achieve a 50% treatment rate, according to Frost & Sullivan, a consultancy. SEPA found over 70% of the water in five of China's seven major river systems was unsuitable for human contact. As more people move into cities, the problem of household waste is becoming severe. Only 20% of China's 168m tonnes of solid waste per year is properly disposed of.

Air According to the World Bank, China has 16 of the world's 20 most polluted cities. Estimates suggest that 300,000 people a year die prematurely from respiratory diseases.

The main reason is that around 70% of China's mushrooming energy needs are supplied by coal-fired power stations, compared with 50% in America. Combined with the still widespread use of coal burners to heat homes, China has the world's highest emissions of sulphur dioxide and a quarter of the country endures acid rain. In 2002, SEPA found that the air quality in almost two-thirds of 300 cities it tested failed World Health Organisation standards—yet emissions from rocketing car ownership are only just becoming an issue.

Honestly, I didn't hear anything inherently 'wrong' or 'stupid' with the point George was trying to make. I couldn't tell what his opint was in the sliver of time alloted between commercial breaks for huge oil companies and the typical shouting match format of these shows. As illustrated above - and many other places - Asia is going to be a serious problem environmentally and there's not a whole lot we can do about it except clean our own house. This is Asia's century... get used to it. By that I mean expect our human rights standards to begin emulating China's and Mexico's. 'The World Is Flat' indeed...

The China-U.S comparison reminded me of this article.

Norm, I'd hate to see you go because of this. For what it's worth, I signed the petition.

I didn't hear anything inherently 'wrong' or 'stupid' with the point George was trying to make.

I suppose you didn't hear him say "nothing we do can make a measurable difference". Do you believe that? There is nothing the number one polluter on the planet can do that will make a measurable difference? We can get our own house in order and lead by example.

Also note that both China and India have signed and ratified the Kyoto Protocol.

To think we all could've been spared George Will's crap if he'd just once in his life got laid.

maybe those Power-ranging Neo-Cons should argue that Iraq is responsible for Global Warming rather than Global Terrorism. It could save some ugly face and its not like evidence matters... Global Warming could be the new 9-11!

China and India's emissions are serious future contributiuons to global warming. Their economic growth is much dirtier than ours is. But our total output dwarfs their now, their growth is cleaner than ours was at that point in economic development.

If we developed--through serious government investment and higher taxes on carbon emissions--cleaner technologies that did not rely on carbon-emitting fuels, it would not just cut our emissions, but it would also help India and China grow their economies in a much cleaner way in the future.

The apathy of people today is astounding. Even, with the ones who have enormous mounts of money.

The US currently emits around double what China does(5.7 billion metric tonnes per year compared with 3.4 billion), despite the fact that China has a population much larger than the US. It is estimated that they will overtake the US in approximately 30 years time. By that time, I think if we haven't done anything about climate change then we will have a much bigger problem on our hands.

If anyone is interested I've got a debate about climate change on my website: Is global warming manmade?.

Neither the States nor China has goals that are going to bear any fruits in the next few decades. I was in Beijing four years ago; there was probably one tree per square mile (if that) and you could barely see down the runway at the airport because of the smog.

I do understand the objections that China and India should be held to the same standards. If they are not, our economy will suffer as they can make all kinds of polluting products cheaper than we can. This is another example of why free trade isn't so great after all. It can put you in a position where you have to do things you don't want to.

If we would tax the hell out of imports from any country not capping their emissions at reasonable levels, it might be a lot easier to implement the caps here.

"nothing we do can make a measurable difference"

True, he did say that, but the rest of his sentence was cut off. Judging by his preceding statement, it seems all he was trying to say was the US shouldn't make too much of a hassle about the issue IF it doesn't include some sort of initiative to get China and India on side (at least in terms of automobiles).

It may be a flimsy point (ala reading it as a shrug off of responsibility because 'those guys are making more of a mess than we are')... but it does makes sense - it NEEDS to be a GLOBAL effort.

I'm afraid this won't a be very scientific but I live in Shanghai, China's largest city. Polution is of course a major problem here but everyone I talk to (including ex-pats) assure me that the air quality has noticeably improved over the last 5 years despite a growing number of cars. I suspect that this might be because more and more industries have been pushed away from the city center but I assure you that ordinary Chinese people care a great deal about pollution. That gives me some hope.

Check out http://irccsi.llnl.gov/whatis.html If China contributed nothing to global warming going forward and we would still have problems. Conservation in china is the only way they will be able to sustain growth anywhere near the current rate. China is not being altruistic they are doing what they have to in order to become the world dominant power in the next century. The lesson for us at this point is resource management, when you are up shit creek you paddle with what you have. The growth industry of the future.... environmental recovery and resource management!!!!!

Hi Chucky,

You wrote that China will pass the US in pollution in 30 years time (!?)

"China will surpass the United States in 2009, nearly a decade ahead of previous predictions, as the biggest emitter of the main gas linked to global warming, the International Energy Agency has concluded in a report to be released Tuesday."

Hi guys, I seem a tussle between which country seems to be the worst cause of global warming.

I see no advantage in this.

First thing, facts show that US is the wrost polluter by far.

Facts also show that China and India is catching up fast in their pollution levels due to the surge of the economies.

My question is this.

If Bush opposes the Kyoto Treaty, which China and India had signed, because he feels that it would hamper USA economic prospects, Bush is also sending a signal to other countries that they can't sign the treaty for the same reasons.

As the worst polluter in the world today, US has to take a moral responsiblity here.

shit, this "dende" person is really getting on my nerves. i agree with almost everything s/he says! how annoying. and furthermore, i also agree with kes' points here. this leaves me with nothing to say, and feeling kind of nonexistant. will you people please say something stupid? :)

Hi Kes,

Hi guys, I seem a tussle between which country seems to be the worst cause of global warming.

My point was only to call out what appear to be misstatements of fact. :) But yes, it's looking like our environmental problems are going to get a lot worse before they get better. short-sighted humans that we are.

Hi wabisabi, no worries. Your points are on the ball.

I'm just concerned what type of message that US is sending to developing countries by rejecting the Kytoto Treaty.

Wouldn't that make less likely to support it if they too look first to their economic needs?

Btw, I may be going to work in China this year.

I'm not looking forward to it.

The air's bad. The water's bad and the food is too damn oily at Shanghai.

I should just find a job in Fujian province near where my ancestral village or county.

I can live on Heng Hua/ Pu Tien cuisine every day for every meal if I must.

I lived in Beijing for half a year. it was very enjoyable. the local food does suck, (but i had a lucrative salary, lived in a 4 star hotel, and ate most meals at international restaurants.) But overall it was a very awareness expanding experience. Shanghai should be much more livable than Beijing. I've visited there, but never lived there, but seems more modern and upscale. I'm in Japan now. been here 4.5 years. Hope you enjoy China!

Hi wabisabi, so you’ve been to Beijing? Did you manage to do much sightseeing?

I hate to admit this but Chinese food in China can be quite bad with some exeptions i.e. zhao-pai cai or flagship dishes like Tienjing’s gou-bu-li-bao-zhi (bun no dog wants to consider) or Shangai xiao-long-bao. I think the major culprits are the poor quality water, way too much oil and a poor service mentality.

However, jia-xiang-cai or home/ancestral dishes at their places of origin retain their standards due to ethnic pride, I guess. With one exception though. Hai Nan Chicken Rice is better taken at stores run by Singaporeans, instead of the native Hainanese.

I’ve been to Shanghai for a few advertising campaigns. It’s a metropolis but it does not have that many sights. I didn’t like the skyline as it didn’t felt Chinese.

How’s Tokyo? Never been there. How are the food and pollution levels? This is the must ask questions for any professionals after pay, accommodations and travel arrangements.

Btw: Hong Kong air pollution threatens business-survey. 27 August 2006

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/060827/3/431l4.html

HONG KONG, Aug 27 (Reuters) - Hong Kong's polluted air is driving away foreign professionals and threatening international investment, according to a survey released on Sunday by the American Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong.

The poll of 140 executives with the group's member companies found almost four out of five business leaders knew someone who was thinking of leaving or had left the territory because of the poor quality of the environment.

Hong Kong's worsening air pollution has become a growing source of concern in recent years. But until now, most evidence suggesting an economic impact was anecdotal…