A considerably more nuanced view of The Holocaust is provided by Gabriel Ash on Dissident Voice (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec06/Ash14.htm). The link is safe for work -- contains no Holocaust Denial.

Thanks for the link fred ludd. When I make some of those same points on blog discussions, I immediately get labeled by some true believers as a denier.

Others accuse me of minimizing the holocaust which to them is the same as being a denier. You can refer them to Norman Finkelstein or as them to watch "Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land", but it doesn't change anything.

Today, one can discuss just about any subject in a rational manner, except Israel and the holocaust, or rather, the Hallowcaust. At least in America.

I usually bring up the massacre of between 12 and 20 million people in the Congo Free State by King Leopold of Belgium as a comparison. But nobody cares about that, even though it too was carried out by a developed western state at the expense of a less developed country, maybe because it was populated by people of color who have never counted for much in the western mind.