One of the many problems with liberal interpretation of the Iraq situation is the fact that they seem to do their best to frame any conclusion in defeatist terms.

We did not lose the war in Iraq. In fact, we won the war in Iraq in like 3 days. We lost the peace. And that's not just a talking point - that's the truth.

We lost what the UN should have been doing, and what the UN would have lost as well: trying to police and maintain a peaceful, democratic state in Muslim central.

Framing this as "America has lost the war" is not only tiresome, it's self-defeating. It's about as well-informed as the people who claim that Iraqis blowing up other Iraqis is some kind of 'resistance movement'. It's terrorism. We're losing to terrorists, which shouldn't be news: nobody knows how to defeat terrorism.

about bible study being more important than your job

all i can say is DISGUSTING.

People who post anonymously with BS like the above poster is tiresome to me.

Do you really think war ends as soon as you capture the capital? Did you learn nothing from past wars?

The UN did not sanction the invasion of Iraq so it was not their mess to clean up. We made the mess we need to take responsibility for it, not blame a third party who told us not to do it. You break it you buy it.

It's not terrorists that are causing the most casualties in Iraq. Don't pretend to know what you’re talking about when it’s obvious you don’t.

"Do you really think war ends as soon as you capture the capital?"

No, I think war ends when you defeat the armed forces of the country you are attacking. This happened ages ago. The war is over.

We are not fighting an organized group of Iraqi defenders. We are in the middle of a bunch of gang fights and fighting random individuals over global ideological differences, not a nationalist or patriotic cause. The enemy even comes from other countries to fight in Iraq - mainly to blow each other up, or to blow up someone from a rival sect. Our soldiers are not even the main target anymore.

The distinction is important. We must be clear as to what went wrong. Iraq was defeated. Saddam was toppled. We just had no reason to do it, nothing to put in its place, and no idea what we were doing.

Just saying 'we lost the war' oversimplifies the issue as much as saying 'the US Civil War was about slavery'. It's facile and naive, and it has the same damaging effect as any other loudly-pronounced, pejorative falsehood.

“The UN did not sanction the invasion of Iraq so it was not their mess to clean up. We made the mess we need to take responsibility for it, not blame a third party who told us not to do it. You break it you buy it.”

This is an attitude I do not understand: the UN should not get involved because they didn’t create the mess? Disregarding the culpability of the UN in this matter which you are ignoring, this situation is exactly what the UN was created for. How have things become so flipped around that you’re cheering the UN for not getting involved in what is being called a civil war – one that is claiming civilians by the thousands?

And how exactly do we “take responsibility” for it? By taking out our troops? Because that’s what everybody is screaming for. By staying? Doesn’t seem all that popular. What are we supposed to do to “take responsibility”, other than just keep kicking ourselves?

“It's not terrorists that are causing the most casualties in Iraq.”

Are you insane? Do you even follow the news? Every day suicide bombers and insurgent death squads claim tens, hundreds, even thousands of victims in Iraq. Are you really willing to deny factual data to justify your emotional beliefs?

What kind of drugs do you have to take to believe the USA has won anything in Iraq?

I would be anonymous too, if i were saying things like that.