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A Fucking Faith Based Thing

"Just get me a fucking faith based thing."—Karl Rove. How sad, the faithheads are being used. I suppose that's what happens when your belief in the President's word is also faith based. The book Tempting Faith: An Inside Story of Political Seduction by David Kuo

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Countdown with Keith Olbermann



I must admit, I am honestly surprised by all of this coverage of the GOP betrayal of the evangelicals. It's such a crazy thing to finally be public knowledge. I was duped along with the rest of the Xtians.

I really believed that Bush and his cronies wanted to convert America into a "faith-based" country. I feared this possibility for a long time. But now, I see that it was just politics all along. And I realize that I should not be surprised. These career politians are dirty, dirty, dirty. Anything to get elected. And re-elected.

Jamey, that's why religion needs to be seperated from politics.

The conservatives and evangelicals crossed the line by wanting to write laws and have rules that cater to their faith, and not the beliefs of non-believers or those of other faiths.

Politics need to be secular with little or no pandering to special interest.

The do-nothing Congress has been paralysed by the conflicting demands of the special interests that have helped elect the Senators and Congressman to power.

Without a basic understanding that a government needs to be governed for all, rather than the needs of 1 religion, there is no basis for equality and other issues of non-material gain like poverty to be taken care off.

With this center eroded by religious fundamentalism, things will fall apart.

Just look at America now and compare it to 6 years ago when the so-called faith-based government did not exist in US.

kes, there are a lot of people out there in America that need to be told that religion should be separate from politics, but happily, I am not one of them. but thanks for the message. It does bear repeating and never gets old.

Just to reiterate my earlier point, for years I honestly believed that the Bushies were onboard with all of the evangelical rhetoric. I thought GWB was a genuine scary born-again, and that his crew might take over my wonderfully secular country. But now I realize that all the talk was just politics as usual. The GOP sees an opportunity for votes, an opportunity for an alliance, an opportunity to appear all charitable and Christianlike, an opportunity to raise a ton of money-- so they take it.

But now we see that not only are the secular humanists (like myself) shat on by this administration, but the Xtians were indirectly shat on as well. The Bushies don't care about anyone, they just want power. And they say whatever it takes to get it.

One final note-- I wouldn't blame the current state of America on "faith-based government." Our current situation is so complicated, we can't point our fingers at any one thing. If our government was in fact faith-based, we wouldn't be at war right now.

But I do agree with your statement, "The do-nothing Congress has been paralysed by the conflicting demands of the special interests." Absolutely true. And those interests include the evangelicals.

if these so called christians really wanted to help the poor, they could start by reforming educaton and ending the war on drugs. I work for the Public Defenders, and all the defendants are poor minorities almost without exception. Thats not an accident, and its not because poor people commit more crimes then the rich, its because our war on drugs is targeting the poor.

Jamey, I'm with you and I too consider myself a secular humanist, much more than as an atheist or agnostics which sounds very final to me 1 guess.

Actually, I always thought US was a Christian country before I came to Norm's blog. You should visit Europe if you think US is secular. Almost half the Europeans have problems with teaching the idea of a Christian Europe as part of their roots : >

As for the screw-ups by Bush and company, I think they screw up the most when they take it on faith that things and people will do fall in place the way they want them.

Simply put, Iraq.

I still think that a president pretending to be a madman for the votes, is paving the way for a president that is a real madman.

After all, this revelation will not hurt the fundamentalist christians, but only the Bush junta. It will put pressure on the republicans to either denounce faith-based politics or make them a "this time it's for real" priority in the 2008 elections. Whichever gets more votes...

Better not start to gloat! If you think there is not a problem read this.

20% religious at the signing of declaration of independence

62% in 1990....

The declaration of independence, written to defend diversity of faith now needs to be used to defend the rational from the majority.

Bush may be out of touch with his staff. That would be in line with the way the white house is run in light of Woodward’s book.

I won’t sleep better at night even if bush comes out and says he believes in evolution and that the end of times is a myth. The religious element is still pushing hard to mission-ize America.

Ironic what happens when you sell your soul to Karl Rove....

forget about the end of times, look at what happened to the constitution. There are so many exceptions to the 4th amendment that at this point you have no rights at all to be free from search and siezure. On top of that, thanks to Kelo the government can take your land away from you and give it to a corporation so long as that corporation can show that it will put your land to more productive use. My point is, our constitutional rights have been eroded to the point where many of the rights simply dont exist, instead the government has "rights" against the citizen.

The surprising revelations in this book are confined to GW's staff, not Bush himself? Do people now believe Bush is not a fundie? AFAIK Bush is still the same, we just now have an explanation why not all of the evangelicals' concerns have been addressed by this regime. People may be reading more into this than what it is. If Bush himself were not a born-again fundamentalist than that really would have been a striking revelation.

After the 2004 election I heard on NPR, prominent Republicans predicting that there would be a battle over redefining the Republican party. Republicans may lose the midterm elections but even if they do it may be a good thing for them on many levels. I hope we are seeing war in the Republican party and not just skirmishes. Here's hoping the Republicans political infighting lasts longer than any real wars they cause.

I know I'm really late to the game (harddrive crash), but I just need to say that I am SHOCKED that people on this site find more delight in seeing Christians be made fools of than anger at the Republicans for manipulating people like this. It shouldn't matter who was manipulated, we were all paying the price for this the past several years. Everyone is entitled to their personal beliefs and opinions, but isn't there a bigger issue here than Christians being used?

Yes, I think that's the thing, chewbacca. Every one of us was duped. Repeatedly. I'm not gloating. I think it's disgusting.

"Here's hoping the Republicans political infighting lasts longer than any real wars they cause."

I agree, MikeC.

"our constitutional rights have been eroded to the point where many of the rights simply dont exist, instead the government has "rights" against the citizen."

Time for another revolution, I think.

kes says: "You should visit Europe if you think US is secular"

I lived in Spain for a year (the pulse of Spain is not very secular), and England for two years (Britain is far more secular). The attacks on September 11, 2001 happened about midway through my two-year stay there. It was interesting to live in a totally different social and political climate when that stuff went down.

I've also traveled through many of the major capitals and metropolises in mainland Europe. I have a good sense of what it is like.

My earlier comment stated that I feared that Bush's crew might take over my "wonderfully secular country." The implication was a secular government, not a secular culture or social structure. Believe me, I am all too painfully aware of religion's presence in everyday American life. My point was that the US government is secular. I did not wish to compare it to other countries' social or cultural secularity. I wish we were more like England in that regard.

Some may say that US laws lean towards Old Testament-like Christian laws, but fortunately we do not have REAL religious law, like Sharia, for instance. Our government is still secular, believe it our not. However, it is becoming more and more authoritarian everyday.

Like I said, time for revolution.

Hear this before you give in the deep end

More pfun with bible-thumpers.


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