Religion Attacks Free Speech, Again
It was Robert Heinlin that said, "one man's religion is another man's belly laugh" It was only a few months ago that Islam wanted an apology for the Danish cartoons and now the Catholics Want An Apology for Anti-Christian Cartoons. I believe it is Billy Boy Donahue's Catholic League that is leading the charge this time. They have been insulted, made fun of, and they're having none of it. Free speech ha, they point to the fact that the Calvalier Daily removed a reference to a cartoon about gays when complaints were lodged. Are they not deserving of equal treatment, after all they're God's chosen and those others will burn in hell. What the fuck, the best argument that they can make for having it removed is that the newspaper was hypocritical. A poor argument and a preposterous idea, would they agree that a father who smokes has no right to tell his children not to smoke. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and if hypocrisy is such a good argument. Then Pope Benedict has some explaining to do, but hypocrisy is not a good reason to supress speech not when the Pope does it or when a University paper in Virginia is the accussed. And depending on how you view homosexuality, as a choice or genetic, additional questions come to mind. Last I checked people choose their relgions. So the criticism, the satirical treatment of what they find holy is not some form of racism and in my opinion perfectly appropriate. You aren't going to argue that religion is like being black or a women or any other biological trait and so criticism is unfair. Does religion deserve a free pass when it comes to criticism, or satire, or just plain mockery. I don't think so. A conversational intolerance of what one finds absurd is sometimes necessary. Does religion deserve a pass when it comes to free speech. Hell No! The cartoons are now gone replaced with the oh so sorry we offended anyone message, though it did take a couple of days to remove them from the cached version of this article. Descriptions are nice, but no substitute for Jesus Crucified on a Graph or I Swear it was Immaculately Transmitted, and then there was that cartoon the Catholics pointed to about the gayest looking of all birds
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Comments
I'm more offended by the fact that the equation is incorrect; y = (2/9) x^2 – 2 would be more accurate.
hey norm/1gm, did you actually read Pope Rat's speech? give it a go before you launch a little snide aside. i like him not, but the speech was excellent - and the furor is being created by the media/corp/monolith and used as fuel for violence by radicals! he was quoting from a book, itself a recounting (ie "quote") from a conversation between a Byzantine Emperor and a Persian scholar. they were not the Pope's "remarks" as is widely misrepresented, not to mention it was a speech at a school of theology.
Yes, I've read it but I fear you have missed the point. I wasn't commenting on the accuracy or the quality of what the Pope was talking about but that he is unwilling to retract what he said simply because some find it offensive. The cartoons challenge the supernatural nature of religion, and yet catholic organizations want them purged because they are offensive. If offense is the standard by which Catholics decide what is fit for print and what is not it is hypocritical to use their influence to have that they find offensive removed while refusing to do likewise when others are offended by them. Actually I think the media is doing a pretty good job reporting that he was quoting someone else.
what annoys me is that they printed an apology for the comic about the gay looking crane. Gays deserve to be satirized just like everybody else. Holding a double standard has and in this case did have an effect where it was cited as a precident by religious groups not to print possibly offensive material.
I agree with the article in one respect: the crane is indeed the gayest of all birds. The rest of the article is just ridiculous.
The gayest of all birds is in fact the one on the cover of this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Stonewall-Paperback/dp/031225377X
The Pope was quoting a 14th century emperor - he was not putting forward what he said as his personal views. The problem with Islam is that they think they are the worlds only "true"| religion. Any religion that can't adapt to times shows that it has a weakness. You can't go handing out a fatwa - license - to kill and cause mayhem just because someone said something you feel is insulting to your religion. In the case of the Pope, he was just saying what someone else had said, and actually, the reaction of the Moslem world, proves the Emperor Michael's point. point
That's the problem with religion in general they think only they have the truth. To single out Islam is a joke. Have you ever talked to a Mormon or a Catholic or any number of fundamentalist Christian churches they all believe the are the only true religion. Religion is the problem, not the solution.
Of course you missed the point of mentioning the Pope. It was to point out the hypocrisy of catholics. They think is okay to quote something offensive, but as in the case of the cartoons that our offensive to catholics they should be retracted and apologies should be issued. It' the hypocrisy.
"A poor argument and a preposterous idea, would they agree that a father who smokes has no right to tell his children not to smoke. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and if hypocrisy is such a good argument."
This is a very childish position, and it's obvious that you didn't give it a bit of thought.
A father who smokes can tell his child not to smoke because the child is not an adult and, in our society, has rights which are secondary to the wishes of his father. This is not hypocrisy.
A person in a particular group that some find offensive should be just as protected as a person in another group that some find offensive, regardless of your alignment. So you either say it's okay to make fun of gays, or it's not okay to make fun of religious people. Any other statement is hypocrisy, Norm, but you seem quite familiar with hypocrisy. The funny thing is that you think you're part of the solution, but with hypocrites on both sides of the aisle you're just part of the problem.
Enjoy reading this then rejecting it! Liberal blog uber alles!
Hey no name the default position here is that we give readers credit for some critical thinking. The analogy of Father and Son holds just as well if the two parties are equals. Husband and wife, worker and co-worker the point is that just because someone is hypocritical doesn't mean their advice is bad. Now on to the gay or religion. It would be okay to criticize someone who is gay if being gay is a choice. I don't think it is. Others have a different take on the subject. There is no dispute when it comes to religion people choose their religions they aren't born that way. The key here is choice. I'm glad you enjoyed reading the post. I'm sorry you failed to comprehend the issue being discussed.
I find it funny (sad?) that every time someone criticizes Islam as being a violent or barbaric religion, Islamic fundamentalists go around burning churches and flags, shooting nuns in the back or threatening to murder authors or cartoonists.
You can criticize Jews, Christians or Buddhists and the most you'll have 99.9% of the time is 85 responses to Norm's posts. You criticize Islam and you better join the witness protection program.
That being said, most of what I've read in the Koran, as in most holy books, is mostly harmless. It's these literalist fundamentalist wackjobs that are the problem.
BTW, the other night I heard Joe Scarborough on MSNBC criticizing Rosie O'Donnell for her 'anti-Christian' comments on the View. I was livid because she did not make anti-Christian comments. She criticized fundamentalism and dared to lump in the Pat Robertsons of the world with the Osama bin Ladens. Despite what anyone says, there are way more similarities than differences.
"Any other statement is hypocrisy, Norm, but you seem quite familiar with hypocrisy. The funny thing is that you think you're part of the solution, but with hypocrites on both sides of the aisle you're just part of the problem.
Enjoy reading this then rejecting it! Liberal blog uber alles!"
jesus. why cant people just disagree? it seems like 90% of the time in the comments when someone disagrees with norm, they dont just disagree, suddenly norm is dishonest, a hypocrite, unfair, childish (with the implication that he is stupid, rather than the good kind of childish), or whatever else. people fixate on one little thing they disagree with (like whether the father/son smoking analogy is appropriate). the glee they feel is almost palpable- "ooh i showed that liberal blogger". stop taking shit so seriously. especially when youre wrong.
on the post, im surprised that gay joke got pulled. isnt that pretty much the premise of "will and grace"? if i were gay, i'd find that show, and other's like it, much more offensive. i figured gay people dont get offended by that ridiculous stereotype, because some gay people seem to adopt it on purpose. they like the joke i guess.
on the overall point of the post, im reminded of the flag-burning controversy. i remember back when that was being discussed the muslim cartoons were recent in my memory, and it was amazing to see conservatives pull a complete 180. "nothing is so sacred that people shouldnt be allowed to make fun of it, even religion"-to- "our nation is so sacred that people are not allowed to make fun of it" (isnt holding the state above religion kind of fascistic, by the way?).
this is my favorite blasphemous cartoon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06wUIfBK7NA
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