sheehan is anti american. so why don´t these guys get that it´s not a good idea to invite her for sane protest against the president or the war.

BushCo and the policies of this administration are "un-American." Protesting them and trying to find a better way of doing things is exactly the sort of thing America USED to be respected for.

This is so absolutely insane. What makes the radio spot worse, other than the obvious bolshevik-style mind control tactics, is the fact that a "scary voice guy" is doing the vocal track. Add to this the doomfeel-inspiring dramatic orchestration in the background and I believe this is probably one of the most properly put-together ads to produce the Republican party's desired effect. Convince people that everything about democracy and the ability for us to voice our opinions is completely un-american.

Honestly I want to vomit. The GOP makes me sick.

"sheehan is anti american" Bullshit, unless only those sycophants that support Bush are patriots. Being pro-american means working to improve your country not just going along never questioning being the good little robot who seldom thinks for himself. When George withdraws from the mess we call Iraq, leaving a theocratic anti-american government in place, will you accuse him of being anti-american. Being anti-war is not being anti-american.

I think the problem here is the creation of pro- and anti-american teams, if you will. Those of us with U.S. citizenship are ALL american, and our opinion of our nation and its leadership is a completely subjective topic. Those bolstering opinions that whomever criticizes any current events with an opinion conflicting their own is immediately labelled as "anti-american" must realize that we are entitled to intellectual freedoms, namely those regarding the nation in which we reside.

It's the very foundation of this 'us vs them' mindset that I feel is destroying intellectual debate about the nation's difficulties.

300 phone calls equates to a deluge? What if there were 3000? Would that be a super-deluge?

Media are coloring the picture.

Is it just me, or does this "anti-american" mantra smell like McCarthism? History really does repeat itself.

Demagogy abound!

In related news - a link on the Utah Voices website leads to a rather sound petition that I'd like to see nationwide - http://lists.econ.utah.edu/august-30/petition.pdf

Any word of its spread to states other than Utah? I'd like for this to get around like the plague. I know I would sign, and I'm certain I'm not the only one here.

@Norm, I agree with your whole post, but sheehan ist still anti american. you probably know more examples than I do, but campaigning for socialists in south america, talking about the "american empire" there etc. ist not anti american? I certainly do understand her motivation, I don't know who I would support if their opponent killed my son, but it's still not a good idea to bring her to democratic campaigns.

I’m like your roving reporter: I took a nice run at lunch today and noticed the people at the Chamber of Commerce building across from Washington Square (where the planned protest is going to be). They are busy putting up flags and a banner: “Freedom’s never Free” “Welcome President Bush”.

To which I ask: Yes, freedom is never free but when does it get too costly?

Do we wait until the number of our deaths in Iraq equals the number of those killed in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and THEN make an assessment of our “costs”?

I hear only rhetoric about “fighting terrorists”. I want someone who is putting up these banners to tell me specifically: 1) When do we call Iraq a democracy? And 2) At what cost? Are 400 more soldiers enough?

No amount of public support with waving flags here in Utah will accomplish bringing democracy in Iraq. Supporting the President and his Administration is paying too much when it costs lives: even one more life.

Utahns are known for never questioning authority. That, and having nothing to listen to except ultra-conservative talk shows, is making Utah fertile ground for living in ignorant bliss.

So, Stefan... what you're saying is that to hold a viewpoint (political or otherwise) that is different from most of America is anti-American? I won't list the points in history that example persecution of persons because of beliefs or viewpoints, but that in a nutshell is what you're saying. If there's any idea that's anti-American, it's not being free to express your opinion whether people like it or not. Cindy Sheehan is no different from you, really. You just happen to have a different idea as to how the country should work. Maybe you should remember that before calling any American (citizen of the United States of America) anti-American.

I think that calling Sheehan anti-american is anti-american! There is nothing more "American" than expressing your rights to Free Speech and to Protest. Thus, those that would try to stop her are "anti-american".

I think that calling Sheehan anti-american is anti-american! There is nothing more "American" than expressing your rights to Free Speech and to Protest. Thus, those that would try to stop her are "anti-american".

I'm ashamed to live here sometimes. It's sad that a majority of Utahns buy into the scary voice/ominous music ads. Not that they need convincing - heaven forbid anyone here starts thinking for themselves rather than let BushCo or a prophet tell them what to think. . .

Really, though. I'm quite ashamed. And I plan on attending the protest.

@slarti: " If there's any idea that's anti-American, it's not being free to express your opinion whether people like it or not."

exactly. and what is she supporting by supporting the new socialists of south america? free speech? of course she has every right to do so.

This is just another sign of the polarising of countries happening around the globe. The only possible reason for which is to have more wars. As this is all people like Mr Hartley understands. His reasoning going something along the lines of: "Ifin theys dont thenk likes me, theys jest ain't fit to be alive on Gawd's green earf" This is just sad sad sad.

What's wrong with being anti-American anyway? What's wrong with disagreeing (and dare I say detesting) the America of today, and the state it's in, even if you are an American. In that regard, I'm anti-American - I stand against the principals and policies that America is sharing with the outside world.

The American ideal, the liberty and justice for all ideal, is a beautiful thing, but it isn't the America that we around the world see and hear. The America we see and hear is a terrible thing, and it's a very good thing to stand against it.

My concern is that while I see opposition to the Administration (and many other institutions in the world) as a very humanistic value, many americans see anti-Bush as anti-american as terrorist-abetter. This whole debate could benefit from some post-structuralist thinking, i.e. the word anti-american does not fit into a neat little category that equates to another category and so on. The giant leap in rhetorical significance is the artistry of propaganda.

if anti-war = anti-american then america is a nation of warmongers.

it boggles my mind how "we like war" is a successful campaign strategy. maybe the draft really does need to come back.

Even mentioning the phrase anti-anything and misconstruing the policies of a state or government with the people and culture of that state is hilarious.

This is a fundamentally totalitarian concept.

Arundhati Roy put it very succinctly: "It is dangerous to cede to the indian government, or the american government, or anyone for that matter, the right to define what indians, or americans are or ought to be. To call someone anti-american, indeed, to be anti-american or anti-indian is not only racist, but it is a failure of the imagination."

No snap, that is a classic line:

"the real embarrassment is Utahns' unwavering support of Bush."

I LOVE IT!!!

"Bullshit, unless only those sycophants that support Bush are patriots. Being pro-american means working to improve your country not just going along never questioning being the good little robot who seldom thinks for himself."

We could argue this pointlessly, or we could just jump right to the point: the problem here is that you buy Sheehan's act, and many of us don't.

I can understand a grieving mother speaking out against the war in which her son died. What I can't understand is her becoming a media whore. This has become her job. And I don't think it's a fair deal. She brings nothing special to the pro/anti-war argument or the anti-war movement, but she has the perfect defense against any criticism: her son died in the war. It's like Yoko selling John's bloody glasses, or selling 'Imagine' to Nike.

And if you think for a second, you'll probably realize you feel that way sometimes too. Just think how obnoxious you find it when an American uses 9/11 to justify something stupid, as Bush tries to do with our foreign policy. He uses it as a crutch. And I think Sheehan does the same. She's the Dalai Lama of the anti-war movement.

But that's just me.

They should turn it on its head.

If they are unAmerican. Then get them to define what an American is.

From what I can see of Republicans they believe to be American is to start wars on other countries, send your children off to such a pointless war (unless your rich) and to have complete disregard for human rights and civil liberties.

Thats what it means to be American to them?

Funny how a small group of people, can fool over half this country, high jack the greatest nation on earth, run it into the ground as much as possible, and if you disagree your anti american? Sadly enough we have nobody to blame other than the stupidity of our own citizens. or floridas rigged election. wheres a john wilkes booth or "Lee Harvey Oswald" when you need them most?

194 calls?? This is ridiculous. Nobody cares about this pathetic campaign. Hundreds of dollars for every call? Speaking of money well spent.. What a joke!

Average Joe has a valid point. However, there is another media-whore: A Utah Mother who recently had her son returned in a body bag from Iraq. She has been on multiple TV spots and a photo-op with Mr. Rumsfeld. She often repeats: “You can’t support the troops without supporting the President” with “You are emboldening the enemy/terrorists with anti-America speech.”

This is her way of grieving? Her son hasn’t even been laid to rest yet! She spends her time to get all dolled up for the media and rubbing elbows at Donny & Marie-styled media events all the while her son is in some cool locker at some mortuary.

Being Anti-Bush shouldn't be considered being Anti-American... unless being american means following blindly... scary times.

For some of the best commentary on this absurd term "Anti-American" go to youtube and search "Arundhati Roy". You will find several clips taken from a powerful film titled "We". The clip on Nationalism speaks directly to this issue in a most clear and eloquent manner.

The whole framing of the issue has a built in bias. The debate isn't whether Cindy Sheehan is "anti-American" or not. It's a sort of conversational terrorism.

This is a marvelous way to come off as nice while saying things that would otherwise be considered inconceivable.

"Have I ever brought up the $523.52 you owe me? Never! Have I ever embarrassed you or made you feel bad over it? Have I ever told you how much I need that money? No, I never have."

"I don't care if other people say you're opinionated (or boring or overbearing, or etc.)"

"I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but (blah, blah, blah...)."

"My dear congregation, I hate to speak of money matters, but (money, money, money, etc.)."

Joe:

"We could argue this pointlessly, or we could just jump right to the point: the problem here is that you buy Sheehan's act, and many of us don't."

!!

(long scraping sound of eyes rolling back up into head-oooh the pain of disbelief)

Buy her act? You mean her little, "my son died" schitck? Yeah for a finale, she matyr herself by being shipped to Gitmo as "un-American". Featuring guest appearances, by rabid right wing fascists. Perhaps she can spontaneously abort fetuses for an encore! Yeah!!

"Buy her act? You mean her little, "my son died" schitck? Yeah for a finale, she matyr herself by being shipped to Gitmo as "un-American". Featuring guest appearances, by rabid right wing fascists. Perhaps she can spontaneously abort fetuses for an encore! Yeah!!"

You, sir, are a cartoon character. God bless you.

Average_Joe said // I can understand a grieving mother speaking out against the war in which her son died. What I can't understand is her becoming a media whore //

The last time that I heard this garbage, it was coming out of the mouth of Ann Coulter, another representative of the average American who is ruining our country and making us the laughing-stock of the world. And yes, to be represented by someone such as Average_Joe causes me to be embarrassed to be an American. If only there were more Americans such as Norm, LeftBanker, Cowboy and Marco, to name just a few.

Anti-American is like telling someone they are a communist during the cold war era. Its just stupid and lacks any intelligence.

Go thank him.

http://thankyourockyanderson.org

yes i think that is the exact point ann coulter was trying to make, that these people use the fact that they are victims in some unfair way.

but its not unfair, noone is saying you cant debate cindy sheehan or disagree with her (as coulter said), its just that it looks worse when you attack her personally.

there is no stigma in disagree with a victim, but there is stigma in viciously attacking a victim, kicking them when theyr down and all.

as long as sheehan (or the 911 widows) doesnt engage in vicious personal attacks , i dont see how its unfair. it should be the standard for debate anyways.