"Clinton Got A Blow Job" damn impressive list george has achieved. I mean, one should be fired for two or three of them. and this guy enumerates 20.

Missionaries are similar to politicians. They have to knock on your door and try to influence you emotionally. And when you're not home, they leave little pamphlets on your door.

Eric Schwartz couldn't have said it better. People have noticed that stuff build up for years, and I don't see how all this crap is outweighed by a blowjob.

congratulations on your itty bitty little post on darfur, norm. now, when this post gets to the bottom of the page and hardly anyone has commented on it, let alone "pulled a kes" with trillions of facts and figures (as with the israel posts), ask yourself why. if you're honest with yourself, and come to an honest conclusion, you'll be a better man for it. down with racism!

that blowjob song was funny. thanks!

Jonathan thanks for your itty bitty condescension. Do you feel better now? You seem to have it all figured out. We both know there will be few comments, and I believe I know why, but since you seem to be feeling your oats, you go first. Why indeed will few comment on the situation in Darfur?

the quote about 9999 gods and believing in one less god...

that's paraphrasing Dawkins' essay in Forbes, "snake oil and water"

http://www.forbes.com/asap/1999/1004/235_print.html

ooh.ouch. oops, there i go again with the condescension. i always come off as more offensive than i mean to be, i guess. my sarcasm was really directed at the world at large, but yes, if someone were to do the stats on your israel posts vs. darfur posts, i do think you'd have pause for some reflection and humility. im interested in your insights on this matter, so ill take on your challange, and take my lumps. the reason few will comment on darfur and everyone is obsessed with bashing israel is, to put it VERY crudely, that no one gives a damn about the blacks and everybody hates the jews. now i know ill have to qualify and explain this if im to have any hope of avoiding a beating. im not going to bring in any facts and figures, other than the previously mentioned stats, which apply equally to your blog and the world media. all i have on my side is my own experience. im not quite as old as you, norm, and i do have a great deal of respect for age as it relates to wisdom, but ive done quite a bit of travelling and lived for 20 years in israel, a great deal of that time spent in jerusalem. now, you would be hard pressed to find a more international city. you can easily take a walk downtown and,in about 3 hrs, get a feel for how and what people from 15 or 20 countries think-and this is only the non-jews. i worked for 12 years in the most popular tourist bar in jerusalem- mikes place, maybe you've heard of it, its tel aviv branch was blown to smithereens by a couple of british guys a few years back-playin' rock n' roll. i would tend to doubt whether you personally have ever even SEEN such and international grouping in one place, let alone interacted w/them for years. and remember, these people are drinking-imagine a bunch of rooms full of mel gibsons from every country imaginable. now, i have been "blessed" to not look at all jewish, and ive had long hair all my life, so most people upon meeting me assume that im a knee-jerk liberal (which i am, for the most part, as all amerecan jews of my generation are, for the most part.) the point being, norm, that over 12 years, i HEAR stuff. a lot of stuff. and i maintain that-of course with many notable exceptions that only prove the rule- that the jews are, have been and always will be the focus of the worlds moral outrage, to the exclusion of anyone else- including the jews themselves, which is why self-hating is a catch phrase that only seems to apply to jews. i believe there are reasons for this which we can get into another time, if you like. one more point. remember in the late 60s,when it seemed that israel might actually survive, could take care of itself? american jews breathed a sigh of relief and turned thieir focus even more than before to the civil rights movement. i would make the claim that the jews are the only people who consistantly and as a group DO care about the blacks, and the oppressed of the world in general, without playing favorites. i see it as a great tradgedy that, because of years of being shit on by people they're tring to help, and being consistantly and more and more distracted by what they perceive, rightly or wrongly (you know which camp im in there) as existential threats to israel, that their concerns for the well being of blacks and others have lessened over the years. now i know i haven't provided facts and figures,or even an argument based on logic. i know that "what is true of parts of the whole doesen't necessarily hold true for the whole". but if a man your age, of your intelligence, does't see that the truism holds in general, that nobody gives a damn about the blacks and everybody hates the jews, i can only assume that you don't get out much. so, what are you going to tell me? that its really all about the money america gives to israel? i'm sorry about the condescension, norm-its something i gotta work on. but i really would like to know what you think about this-both my dark vision of humanity, and the reasons for the paucity of respondants to the darfur post.

Why isn't anyone getting upset about Darfur? Could it be because it is a Arab sponsored government, slaughtering black Africans, rather than Israelis killing Arabs? That would be the simple answer that I think Jonathan is digging at (and I believe that there is some validity to that). People pick their good guys and bad guys, and those they don't care about at all. The unfortunate state of affairs is that not many people are actively caring about Darfur, and some such as the Chinese government is actively making the problem worse. It's the same question about human rights in general. Why are many of the worse abusers ignored, while others are targeted for so much scorn? I'm not saying that Israel and the United States don't deserve scrutiny, because they do, but what disturbs me the most is that so many countries seem to get a free pass in many circles. What makes many people like Jonathan and myself very uncomfortable is that Israel seems to be undully singled out as the worst of the worst, when places like Sudan and Saudi Arabia, etc are ignored by many on the left.

I commend Norm for posting on Darfur, and am not going to question his motives or say that it is a token gesture. However the silence of some of the more 'prolific' commentors is glaring. . .

My posts are driven by what I find of interest and to some extent by the responses to the posts. You've noted that the extensive coverage in the media and that certainly is a significant factor. I'm sure you're correct that there is lot of hate in the world for Israel, much of it unjustified. I think if you looked through all my posts for the past four years you'd see that discussion of Israel only comes up when there is media discussion of it either in the MSM or sometimes in the blogosphere. The reasons for covering Israel are different for different writers. I think it's a mistake to think that that "the jews are, have been and always will be the focus of the worlds moral outrage, to the exclusion of anyone else-" Certainly they get a lot of coverage, but there are a number of different reasons for that. So why is there so much discussion of Israel. Part of the reason I think is Israels very effective PR. Every charge of Israeli wrong doing is vehemently challenged, and there is seldom recognition of wrong doing even if it is quite obvious to others. So defenders of Israel drive the conversation. Like on this blog. I write anything negative about Israel and I get charges of anti-semitism. I organized responses I don't recall the group GIYUS that sent the hoards to post comments. I read what you write and what Zak writes and what the hoards write that prompts me to do more reading on the topic and I find additional stories that address the issues that have been raised and so I post those. Interesting that the active defense of Israel leads to more writing on the subject. Why not Darfur, is it that we don't care? I care but when I write on the subject or post a story there are few comments. The reason I think is simple. There is no conflict, everyone agrees that it is horrific and that we should be doing more, but no one defends it and so no conflict and nothing to drive the conversation. The conventional wisdom is that if you fuck up the best PR is to admit it immediately apologize and move on. People become outraged when wrongs are done and not acknowledged, or acknowledged and then repeated. If I write that Hezbollah was wrong to fire rockets into Israeli cities, no one argues the point and so there is no further discussion. We agree, we have reached a consensus. I'm concerned that Israels over-reaction to provocation makes it difficult for the more moderate elements to support them. At the beginnig of the current conflict Israel had the world on its side, even moderate Arab countries were supportive, but Israel's reckless disregard for civilian casualties soon changed that. Israel I must say is its own worst enemy.

Norm, the point you make at the end of your post is the same that was made in the cover story of the most recent Atlantic Monthly (which I referred to in another comment). That is, when large powerful democracies overreact to legitimate threats, they become their own worst enemy.

I have to disagree though about Darfur. There is a very real conflict there. The conflict is about the world's inaction, either from disinterest in serious engagement or because of economic and political ties to the government in Sudan that is sponsoring this slaughter.

I have to disagree though about Darfur. There is a very real conflict there. The conflict is about the world's inaction, either from disinterest in serious engagement or because of economic and political ties to the government in Sudan that is sponsoring this slaughter.

What do you mean you disagree. I don't argue that the conflict is not real and serious nor do I disagree that the reasons are political and economic. I simply repeat. You and I don't disagree so what is it exactly that we discuss?

Norm, I'm not saying that there is a conflict or disagreement between you and me. I'm saying that it is a serious thing that people supposedly want more to be done but nothing is being done. There is a conflict because no one is really addressing why nothing is being done, and it is abhorent that the UN is willing to devote peace keepers in an instant to stop a conflict that has killed less than 2000 people, but they drag their feet when those same peace keepers could save tens of thousands, right now.

norm, thanks for putting the time and thought into your answer to a question that i think is at the very heart of all the pro-/anti-israel controversy on your blog and elsewhere. i gota tell you, agree or disagree, i like your approach and more importantly, i seem to find many of the same things interesting and amusing that you do- thats why im here. even though i disagree with almost everything you said here, how can i argue when you get all warm and fuzzy, all thoughtful and introspective like that? i've got a real soft spot for decency. so i'll tell you what i do agree with, and issue a small challange, just for fun. it seems to me to be true your idea that, to paraphrase, the controversy generates iself-that the very fact that israel and its defenders are so vociferous-or vehement, as you put it-"makes its own sauce".(can't resist a colorful turn of phrase). and its true that things we all agree on are dead issues. consensus. thats why i never post about the daily show clips. in jewish english, "whats not to like?" but, you want to put hizbullas' rockets in this category? and so we come to my challenge: i dare you to post an article that unequivically condemns hizbullas' rocket attacks on civilians, without any mention of israels killing of civilians (i think this is fair-i've seen plenty of posts here that work the other way around)and see if it doesn't "make its own sauce".

What you don't like my last post. I thought the video presented a very balanced view. I don't recall hearing any excuses for Hezbollah rocket attacks only condemnation. I thought the criticism I suggested was a fair one do you disagree.

I'm interested in your suggestion but a quick search has failed to uncover any articles that are both timely and meet the criteria. Send me an email if you find something you think fits the bill.

Lev sems to forget that the Jews in Israel first used terrorism in the Middle East in 1946 with the King David Hotel's bombing which killed 92 Arabs, Jews and British, higher than any toll by an Arab suicide bombing:

British anger at Jewish terror celebration which killed 92. 20 July 06

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2277717,00.html

Israeli's 6th Prime Minster, Menacham Begin, is also the head of these Jewish terroist bombing group.

This first act of bombing in the Middle East are still celebrated by Jews in Israel to this very day, among them ex-Israeli PMs.

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Israeli terrorism is still very much alive by its last few decades of attackes against Arab civilians, which has resulted in more than a thousand times dead Arab civilians compared to the less than 2000 number for dead Israeli civilians.

Sorry, Lev, have to point out your omissions as you did with the human rights report.

norm, you're not GONA find an article that fits the criteria, for the very reasons weve been discussing. not on the MSM, anyway. i don't know the blogosphere well enough (yet) to give you any suggestions there. im sure there must be rabid, fascist/zionist pro-israel sites that might be able to provide something of that nature, i just don't know any. maybe zak or kes could help. and im not sure which critisism you're referring to. gota leave computer land for a day or so, but ill be back. party on, dudes.

So show me the article in the MSM that condemns Israel with no mention of Hamas or Hizbullah.

Hi jonathan, you have to ask Zak, unless you are not Zak who uses pro-Israeli advocacy websites like www.palestinefacts.org.

Proof: Check under the section "Orthodoz Union" at this Jewish website:

http://www.comsyn.org/israel.php

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jonathan, I use sources from United Nations Archives, International media, International NGOs and Jewish groups.

But based on the comments of the pro-Israeli crowd here, as long as these sources criticise Israel for its atrocities, they are anti-semite.

If that's the case, I'm not sure where you can find credible evidence that are fair and objective in crticising Israel's violation of the UN charter, UN resolutions, Geneva Code of Conduct.

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