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George Galloway's Perspective

The always entertaining George Galloway weighs in on the war in Lebanon, and slams Rupert Murdock's Sky News in the process. I agree with his point that the conflict didn't begin on July 12th the day Hezzbollah killed 8 and captured 2 Israeli soldiers. That was clearly a continuation of the tit for tat exchanges over occupied territory and the many Lebanese held in Israeli jails. It is also important to note that the barrage of rockets began in response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon on July 12th not prior to it. The figure for Israeli civilians killed as a result of Hezbollah from 2000 to the current invasion is six.



Quicktime Video 10.5MB 9'21
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(tip to Simon)


 

Comments

While the guy paints a pretty picture for Hezbollah, he is absolutely right about the media pretending that this "crisis" started just over this summer.

Wow. While I disagree with Mr. Galloway's claim that Hezbullah is not a terrorist organization, most of the rest of what he said was spot on. Some big cajones, there.

The best point about this clip is the discussion on where does the history start. Practically. My feeling is that Israel had no right to establish it's self forcefully where it did, but that it's now there and there for good. That is where my counter starts, with ignoring all tit-for-tat actions from that point and back 3000 years. The problem is that we can't find a forgive and move on reset point.

Of course Isreali blood is worth more than Lebanese or Palestenian blood. Which one was it that gave us the new Core 2 Duo chip? Does anyone doubt that the Isrealies provide more prosperity to the world than Lebenese or Palestenians?

Poor Arab citizens broadcast the view that their lives are worth very little everytime they blow themselves up. Hell we can quantify economically just how much less their blood is worth (According to the IPCC, something like 1/15th), its not a mystery.

None of this justifies needless killing of Lebanese and Palestenians, which Isreal is no doubt guilty of to some extent; but it does justify some level of pro-Isreali bias among those, like myself, who benefit from and have greater respect for the people of Isreal. Sorry, life isn't fair. There won't be any "rights" in international politics until we have a solid world government.

Thaddeus, your right, these people need to take a cue from Nietzsche and get over their obsession with the past.

Mr Galloway is right to point out how the media tries to lead us towards a belief that there is in some way a difference in the relative values of Lebanese or Jewish blood. (God/Allah help us ..) .. our 'friends' are not always right nor our 'enemies' always wrong when we are brothers.

As a UK resident I feel very saddened by the BBC , seemingly eager to portray an invaded nation as an intrinsically terrorist state. If one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter then perhaps we should ask 'what freedoms are they demanding and fighting for' , in order to resolve the conflict .. and should always know ourselves , what are 'WE' fighting for ?

From the BBC website (small print) : "More than 900 Lebanese, most of them civilians, have been killed in the conflict, the Lebanese government says. More than 90 Israelis, most of them soldiers, have also been killed." The reported facts state something pretty obvious.

In terms of reporting , the presenter has no right to harangue Galloway while he speaks , he is not a part of the government and has no practical power , only a willingness to stand against propaganda. I see worrying echoes of Fox News in the manner in which Galloway was interviewed .. have they ever dared to interview him ?

As usual the exchanges of 'who started it' are nothing more than a red rag that will only inflame tension , schoolyard politics .. now that I am glad to hear Bush saying this afternoon that he now wishes for a cessation .. I'm afraid the new cynic in me starts to wonder if that is because the Israeli operations have not been as successful in destroying Hezbollah as they projected .. or perhaps because the price of Oil has gone up again , that usual makes Dubya (and cronies) stand to attention.

Galloway , delivers passionate and incisive debate at every turn , I hope so much that a negotiated peace between Israel / Lebanon (Islam) can be conducted in a mutually respectful way , in a manner that this interview was not.

I could have cried in frustration , had I been interviewed in a similar way. It is more polite , Miss , to thank Mr Galloway for his (invited) opinions.

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is he (GG) really naive enough to think that if israel returned all it's prisoners and vacated lebanese soil that all the fighting would stop?

Boy do I dig it when "career" idiots, like this "journalist" for Murdoch media, are made to look stupid. This post and the previous one about cartoons hurting kids, though, is a bit much for me. I'm gonna go watch some cartoons just like the Ayatollah Khomeini used to do. -tgs-

"Of course Isreali blood is worth more than Lebanese or Palestenian blood. Which one was it that gave us the new Core 2 Duo chip? Does anyone doubt that the Isrealies provide more prosperity to the world than Lebenese or Palestenians?" - James

Ironically if it wasn't for the Lebanese you wouldn't be typing in English. They also invented soap but as geek you probably don't have to worry about that. :) :P

....

Hes fun to watch as he actually researches his stuff and knows how to debate his point.

Wow. Thanks Norm for putting that up. Could I ask a favor? Could you put up a set of links so that I can read more about the situtation in the middle east. I don't have much background information and would like to better understand what has happend and what is going on. I know this is somewhat of broad request but any information you could throw my way would be appreciated.

wow, kudo's to him!!! i wish we could see more critisism like that on television!!!

Holy crap. Talk about not accepting the terms of debate from your interviewers.

US Democrats, could we please pay attention?

Wow, That was an ideological rapage the likes of which I have never seen! Good show Mr. Galloway.

Ben Evans -

I see worrying echoes of Fox News in the manner in which Galloway was interviewed .. have they ever dared to interview him ?

Sky News is part of BSkyB, owned by Murdoch's News Corporation. So in a sense, the answer to your question is yes.

just stop that shit.

Wish he'd been as interested in Glasgow back when he was an MP here as he apparently is with Lebannon and Palestine. I wonder if the people of Bethnal Green and Bow think he's actively trying to improve their lot or (as most suspected at the time of the election) Galloway chose them as an easy target from which to set up his soap box to preach to the world.

"Of course Isreali blood is worth more than Lebanese or Palestenian blood."

I hate to make an appeal to authority but 'We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal....'

Galloway is awesome, and yet again, here, he is spot on accurate in his analysis of the conflict. The clock, for sky news and other western news organizations, he says started, conviniently, 4 weeks back, as if nothing of significance to the conflict happened earlier to that reference point. You cant get more accurate than that. This accuracy is easily conprehendable to any rational being with the exception of ofcourse the many hypocritical morons who swamp through the cordons of rhe multiplex of newspaper and news channel every day in US of A. 'We are the word peace keepers' yeah right, screw you.

Of course Isreali blood is worth more than Lebanese or Palestenian blood. Which one was it that gave us the new Core 2 Duo chip? Does anyone doubt that the Isrealies provide more prosperity to the world than Lebenese or Palestenians?

That statement puts you in some quite notorious company, I'm surprised that a supporter of Israel would feel comfortable in such company.

"Mr Galloway is right to point out how the media tries to lead us towards a belief that there is in some way a difference in the relative values of Lebanese or Jewish blood."

Lebanese or Israeli blood, please. There is a big difference between nationality (Lebanese, Iraeli) and religion (Muslim, Jewish).

Nice shouting match. Isn't this the reason why Bill O'Reilly and a host of other Fox News pundits are loathed? Thanks for stooping to their level sir.

The only difference is O'Reilly and Fox News pundits LIE!

Its people like this that the democrats in the US need to stop fox news pundits from bullying them in every 'debate' they host. If they arent ashamed of the vile their spewing why should someone who thought his arguement through be intimidated? Kuddos to Galloway for fighting the machine.

I think Tummler makes a good point here. Hannah does ask a pretty smart question about whether or not Hezbollah has lost ground, now that Israel basically decimating southern Lebannon with thousands of soldiers flowing back into Lebannon and his response was "What a stupid question". This type of thing is what I don't like about Galloway. Often I agree with him but when you completely dodge a question with an insult, you're not going to convince everyone watching that the question is indeed stupid. Seemed like an O'Reiley tactic to me.

"...That statement puts you in some quite notorious company, I'm surprised that a supporter of Israel would feel comfortable in such company..."

I'm not surprised... I remember watching footage of Israeli soldiers holding a Palastinian man's arm out straight and breaking it with a heavy rock 20 years ago... I think they're QUITE comfortable with it...

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Thanks for this.

Israel did this Israel did that. Israel occupies kills destroys.

After listening to all of this stuff from Galloway, one would think Israel was some sort of expansionist power, instead of six million jews trying to survive surrounded by 30 some million arabs that do not believe that they have a right to exist. The maps of most of the nations surrounding Israel still use arab names for the cities, in preparation for when the jews are driven into the sea.

I don't mind the frothy new people learning about the conflict who know nothing historically, and are easily swayed by the typical anti-Israeli bent.

What really bothers me are people who know the score (like the site owner) and yet still create this dark echo chamber for (really lets be honest here) this anti-semitic crap. If you really were debating this important subject you would not be listening to this anti-semite spout his preposterous one sided views.

Galloway quote in 2005 to an arab paper

“I am still a member of parliament and was re-elected five times. On the last occasion I was re-elected despite all the efforts made by the British government, the Zionist movement and the newspapers and news media which are controlled by Zionism.”

*yeah they caused 9/11 too, or so I hear.

Not too long ago neutral hard clear thinking galloway started screaming at a Jewish member of the house of commons calling her "Israel's MP on Merseyside".

Galloway hates Jews, and your posting his comments to make your point, certainly have made a point, but I am not sure it is the one you wanted to make.

As mom used to say: Can't we just sit together and have some tea?

There is no solution, and all those guys down there are doing is 'doing something' which they think is better than 'doing nothing'.

When instead, everybody should do nothing, should have done nothing and should try to get along as if we were all members of the same species.

Well, as if that ever worked.

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I think it is important to bear in mind throughout debates such as these that a person who disagrees with the actions of the Israelis is not necessarily an anti-Semite. A person can believe the actions of the Israelis to be wrong because they are wrong and would still be wrong if they had been committed by somebody else.

I am not defending Mr Galloway here, I am just clearing up a point in the debate.

James, your pro-Israel rant is probably the most baseless I have seen here.

Which one was it that gave us the new Core 2 Duo chip?

Obsolete in 12 months.

The Arabs contributed far more to the world with the progress of science, maths and arts during the 500-year old Golden Age of Islam. And the Arabs helped the Jewish civilisation survive Christian prosecution from the 10th century onwards. Moorish Spain took in 200,000 Jews from Europe alone, while other Muslim countries gave Jews freedom to practise their religion, culture and even hold jobs in government.

Arab and Muslim civilisation has done far more for the world than the Jews. PERIOD.

Does anyone doubt that the Israelis provide more prosperity to the world than Lebanese or Palestinians?

I do. Israel receives more US$4 billion ion aid from S every year, which it spent on arms, which can be much better used elsewhere. The poverty of the Lebanese and the loss of the Palestinians of their lands are the direct result of Israel's military atrocities, invasions and even ethnic cleansing in the last 60 years.

Israel is totally guilty of needless killing of Lebanese and Palestinians i.e. with a kill rate of 900 Lebanese civilians killed for every 25-30 Israeli civilian killed by Hezbollah's answering fire.

By comparison, the Hezbollah killed more Israeli soldiers than Israeli civilians to defend Lebanon against Israel's military attacks

There are no justifications for pro-Israeli bias BECAUSE THERE ARE NO JUSTIFICATIONS FOR ISRAELI ATROCITIES AS A ROGUE STATE IN THE LAST 60 YEARS, FOR WHICH IT RECEIVED 22 UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTIONS DENOUNCING ISRAEL'S ROGUE STATE BEHAVIOUR.

That is why pro-Israeli posters can find little credible evidence to support their positions.

By the way, James, Israeli pre-occupation with the past is why they want to set up a state in the Middle East on Arab lands. Your final comment targeting the Arabs reflect pro-Israeli's positions which allow Israeli to get away for everything Hams and Hezbollah get condemned for.

Try to be more honest, thank you.

It's a BBC interview , the British national network , hopefully not a part of Murdoch's Sky News.

I do not believe that 'Galloway hates Jews' , Derrico. He is a long standing opponent to WAR, including Iraq, that has nothing directly to do with Israel. Particularly he vociferously stands against state sponsored murder , that comes camoflaged within political biased media led fear tactics that , as we now (perhaps) realise , lead the populous to perceive a direct threat that did not necessarily YET exist .. the Arms Industry rubs its hands , for profit , the threat becomes self-fulfilling as the opponents decide to fight back.

What Galloway does is attempt to give a voice to the other side of the debate that we are all informed by. I suspect that if Galloway was Arabian he wouldn't even get air time. The fact that he is a White Anglo Saxon talking angrily about Israel's deportment gives kudos for some , others will (I think obtusely) perceive him as a traitor. That says more about vested interests , xenophobia and giving into fear than it does about open debates on morality.

I stand corrected , w.r.t. saying 'Jewish', rather than Israeli blood ... moreover , given that my PC is likely being watched these days (!?) .. a jet just flew over me ... oooo , uh oh ... I would like to state that I am in no way anti-semitic or anti-anybody. Saying that GW Bush is a prat does not mean that I hate all Americans and realising the influence that Jewish (this time) money has in the world does not mean that I want to rekindle the Holocaust. (People who like to label political opponents as anti-semitic should realise that this is a purely inflammatory victimisation complex, please stop playing the 'Jews were persecuted in the past' card .. it does not give carte blanche to kill now .. an eye for an eye , we all go blind )

I am honoured to have made friends with Isrealis and Islamic believers , among other faiths , in several countries. For a perspective it is most definitely true to say that an 'Arab' (tho' I don't like the term) will be your best friend or your worst enemy .. it was a Turk who told this to me and it rings very true. They are as a whole immensely honorable people who will feed relative strangers in their own homes , they used to at least , but , disrespect them and you better look out ... this is what is known as honourable behaviour . It only becomes wrong as a methodology when it resorts (I suspect more through frustration than hatred) to violent behaviour.

Israel does herself no favours in destroying the single road that was bringing humanitarian relief or allowing civilians to flee (the media will start counting refugees soon ?) , for instance , or is willing to destroy an entire apartment block to get at one or two suspects. Israel seems quite careless in the tactics it uses for defense .. ask the UN observers that were killed .. and the word 'seem' is important because it is the perception of Israel's evidently lax attitude to the value of non-combatent Islamic life , as it is seen in the Arab world , who are quite likely to react with the same .. it is the tail that feeds this snake.

I am afraid that we are still paying for a poorly carried out implementation of the Jewish state , Israel , as set up after WW2. It's simple though , if I want new land I would have to BUY it from the occupier citizen somehow ... yes ?

Freedom ? Liberty ? What do we do with it ? It really is little wonder that Al Queda groups see all western citizens as complicit. This is despite the fact that , ultimately , as individual , each opposer to it had zero influence over our countries' decision to go to war. I was in Japan at the time anyway but , nicely remote , I saw media coverage from all the world's TV networks each morning , lucky , able to see more sides.

Stop that shit , the Arab world may eventually forgive us for its dead children .. I doubt they will surrender to further bullying and gun driven financial occupation, that's for sure. Citizens on both sides seem to have become the soft target that proliferates grief .. anger .. have you even SEEN Star Wars ?? lol (there's a valid point there)

I suspect that there are few practical opportunities for the Islamic populous to protest peacefully. We used to see flag and effigy burning , ramping the stakes created the suicide bomber , scary to you ? It should be. The suicidal act does not mean that they place no value on their own lives , the opposite in fact , they are defending their own families in a political protest designed to earn respect for their point of view. Extreme and misguided ? Maybe , but we ARE in the debate and we NEED to understand WHY , somehow , though difficult for comfortable westerners , who are more likely to kill themselves over money .. it certainly takes a level of despair to kill yourself , no matter what the 'cause'. Perhaps seeing your entire family dead around you would drive the sanest person to it , it deserves recognition as something in need of a cure , not more fuel.

Humans have a dark history , the educated people must be first to take a lead , to be the first to understand , pacify and educate , rather than to resort to the same methods of shock and awe that we always condemn in the other side.

I'm sorry , it's tough but your God , Mr Bush , expects you to pay cash money for your fuel oil . Please do not pay for it with your own soul or , more importantly , in the countless lives of those who happen to live on the reserves.

Derrico says that people who criticize Israel or support Arabs hates Jews. Like most pro-Israeli people here, his rants come with no proof.

It is hard not to criticize Israel who has received 22 United Nations resolutions denouncing its military aggression, illegal invasion and other rogue state behavior such as –

  • Illegally occupying Arab lands from 1948 onwards. While the Arabs did not occupy land designated for Israel in 1948, the Jews moved in to occupy both Arab and Jewish lands through pre-emptive military strikes. At that time, the Jews form only 16% of the total population in the region of Arab Palestine and owned just 8% of the lands. The Jews ended up occupying 70% of Palestine and went on to occupy Gaza Strip and West Bank in 1967 and Southern Lebanon from 1982-2000.

  • Destroying thousands of Arabs homes and hundreds of Arab settlements through rocket attacks, shelling, bulldozing to create the worst refugee crisis in the Middle East. More than 8 million Arabs live in refugee camps due to Israeli’s military aggression and occupation in Palestine, Gaza Strip, West Bank and Lebanon.

  • Pioneering and perpetuating the use of terrorism in the Middle East. The Jews in Israel were the first to use terrorist tactics to target innocent civilians to achieve military objectives such as their bombing of the King David Hotel in the 1940s which killed 92, an event the Jews in Israel are still commemorating.

  • Illegally developing a successful nuclear WMD programme. At last count, Israel, a recognised military aggressor in the Middle East, has 200 atomic bombs.

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Derrico lies when he claims that Israel is not an expansionist power in the Middle East. Israel is universally recognized as a military expansionist power by the United Nations as it forms its state on occupied Arab lands and 80% of the Jews in Israel were immigrants from elsewhere with no ancestry in the Middle East.

Before Derrico tried an emotional appeal of 6 million Jews living among 20 million Arabs, he should bear in mind that Israel has dispossessed the lands and right to self-determination for 8 million Arabs who live in refugee camps.

And kindly note that no one wanted the Jews to come to live in the Middle East. The Jews resorted to large scale illegal immigration into Palestine without the consent of the local Arab majority.

Jews in the 1930s even hoped that Hitler would deport 500,000 German Jews to Palestine and even signed an economic agreement called The Transfer Agreement with Hitler's Germany to help promote the deportation of German Jews. Edwin Black has written a very good book about this little known agreement that has been redacted from the American and Israeli history books.

Good thread, Norm. It's a good way to bring out the lack of factual basis in the claims of the pro-Israeli crowd here which is trying to help Israel get away with mass slaughter of civilians again, which it done so since 1948.

More Arab civilains has been killed by Israel compared to Israeli civilains killed.

And more Israeli soldiers are killed by Arabs compared to actual Arab fighters killed by Israelis.

No doubt Israel prefers softer targets : >

Thanks Norm, that was really interesting. It was amazing how clearly unobjective the interviewer allow herself to seem. I appreciate Galloway going after for it.

kes - out of curiosity, do you propose a solution for this conflict that's based on your "understanding" of the history?

To conclude that people who make more money are 'better' humans than those who don't, it is like saying those who make less money are automatically more spiritual than the rich. It's illogical to conclude people's income as a yardstick for their selfworth.

"Of course Isreali blood is worth more than Lebanese or Palestenian blood."

Yikes! Speaking of blood, that comment made mine run cold and I imagine James' (or should I say, Mr. Burns) blood has congealed.

So people's worth is based on economic numbers? That would make those on Forbes' richest list the best human beings we have. Say, how much do you make a year? We gotta know how 'worthy' your blood actually is.

Anonymous, my understanding of history comes from going through the United Nations archives.

www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal -

You should try it yourself.

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My suggestion is to return the issue of Israel and Palestine for UN to decide.

Israel has often pointed out that it has the right to exists based on the UN mandate of 1947.

It however neglects to mention that Israel launched pre-emptive strikes to seize lands that UN designated for Arabs and Jews to set up a state of Israel, while the Arabs did not occupy lands designated for the Jews in 1949.

Israel also has the worst history of any country in the world when it comes to rejecting UN resolutions against its rogue state activities i.e. 22 United Nations resolutions were issued to denounce Israel as compared to 17 for Saddam's Iraq.

My proposal is to bring Israel and Palestine back into UN to determine their status and both parties must be tried for war crimes.

Israel must return all terriroties it annxesed largely by pre-emtpive air strikes and sneak attacks, which also includes the Shebaa Farms areas which Lebanon and Syria has claims to and which is uniltarally annxes by Israel in 1981 as part of the Golan Heights, along with East Jerusalem. This unilateral annexation is not recognised by the UN or international community.

That's a start.

The problem that we all miss is that Jerusalem is mine. All israelis and arabs who stand in my way will die.

Get the funk over it.

It saddens me that certain words like terrorist, evil, terror have become part of our everyday vocab. while I agree with most of what homeboy said I do thik that we have to stop accepting the dumbed down version the media sells us... the last straw was the isreali soldiers being kidnapped... this war is really about Iran and the US...fighting it out.... whatever happened to negotiation?

It saddens me that certain words like terrorist, evil, terror have become part of our everyday vocab. while I agree with most of what homeboy said I do thik that we have to stop accepting the dumbed down version the media sells us... the last straw was the isreali soldiers being kidnapped... this war is really about Iran and the US...fighting it out.... whatever happened to negotiation?

annebolyn, Israel kidnapped 2 Hamas from Gaza Strip first before Hamas and Hezbollah did the same.

"But mom, he started it." I have two brothers and when we were young and picking on each other, the excuse "he started it" wasn't very effective. You know Hezbollah and Hamas would have a lot more respect in the US, Canada, Britain and whoever else if they were just a tad bit more passive. You know sit back, have your homeboys get kidnapped and go to the UN and say WTF. Then if the UN can't help say what the hell to Israel and the US. Israel and the US are intentionally agitating them so we (USA) can get to Iran. I just don't see how chanting "Death to America. Death to the infidels." is going to help them, especially since at the drop of the hat we could destroy them 2000 different times. Iran is going to get owned the moment they touch Israel. That's why they're not helping out their homeboys.

the radical fundamentalist of Islam are hijacking the Islam faith.

they must be stopped, before it is too late.

watch this video. it is an hour long. but everyone needs to see it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2967276362246845611

kes, israel gets "written up" by the UN about oh, every 6 weeks it seems like. even when nothing is going on, resolutions against israel are considered.

the sheer number of arab countries in the UN (not on the security council but in general) compared to countries that support israel GUARANTEES new resolutions all the time. if i were in israel's shoes, i wouldn't be obedient to the UN.

i've read some of your debating on this site, and you tend to personally attack people, mostly by using contempt. (evidence is widely available on these blogs.) i see that you're morally outraged (as are the zionists), but what's with the disrespect?

the sheer number of arab countries in the UN (not on the security council but in general) compared to countries that support israel GUARANTEES new resolutions all the time.

This is a misleading statement. The number of arab countries is no where near a majority. The world, arab and non-arab alike, often finds Israel's behavior unacceptable. To pass it off as if it is just an arab view is to distort the facts. Shame on you.

"shame" on me? lol.

uh, gee, sorry mister jenson, it won't happen again. i shouldn't have been so morally inferior to you.

Israel has been the only UN member excluded from a regional group. Geographically, it belongs in the Asian Group... however, the (19?) Arab states have barred its membership. without membership in a regional group, Israel cannot sit on the Security Council or other key UN bodies.

I can find very little to brag about on either sides of this 2000 year old conflict. George Galloway is a well known crack pot. Sure there is something to what he is saying but he is way not constructive. Turn back the clock 200 years Mr Galloway. Some how there is somthing knobel in these on one side or the other, it is sad, realy sad!

Wham! That's how you end an interview!

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talk about armchair pundits! this is obviously a man who strikes fear in the hearts of interviewers by making his views a distant second in importance to his presentation of them-or rather, of himself. the volume, bluster and aggresive patronization are certainly intimidating,the views expressed less so.he makes such a big deal about historical perspective, pointing out(correctly) that this conflict didn't start four weeks ago, "or even four years ago...".but if we can take his words, and specifically his stated solution to the conflict at face value, here's a little factoid that will apparently come as a surprise to "mr. historical perspective" there, sitting in an armchair punditting away somewhere in europe: it didn't start in 1967 either.duh.

First you write this false statement. 19 arab countries out a total of 192 can't pass any resolutions without dozens of non-arab countries so the the number of resolutions condemning Israel is explained not by arab members but by a widespread consensus of all members not just in the arab world as you intimate.

the sheer number of arab countries in the UN (not on the security council but in general) compared to countries that support israel GUARANTEES new resolutions all the time.

Then you follow with this and although it is interesting it has absolutely nothing to do with resolutions being passed that condemn Israel.

Israel has been the only UN member excluded from a regional group. Geographically, it belongs in the Asian Group... however, the (19?) Arab states have barred its membership. without membership in a regional group, Israel cannot sit on the Security Council or other key UN bodies

As to your morality, you've provided one example of being dishonest. The future will tell if that was an aberration or sign of more to come.

I don't want to like Galloway. But I keep hitting a big problem. He's correct. He's definitely no worse, or more hateful, or less moral than his critics.

Until the US and Britain stop sending weapons and start sending James Brown's old jumpsuits to Israel, we will never stop getting angry on the internet with people we've never met.

;-D If violence is so guaranteed, can't we at least fight in bellbottoms?

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sajad's request for background information reminded me of my own quest:can any of you historians and intellectuals recommend a good book,in english,on the history of the palestinian people,OUTSIDE THE CONTEXT OF THE ARAB/ISRAELI CONFLICT? and yes, im trying to make a point by asking.can somebody please correct my poor,misguided impression that the palestinian people only exist within this context- as pawns,as the warhead on the arab/muslim missile aimed at the presence of a jewish state in the heart of the "arab/muslim" middle east?always willing to be corrected,preferably by someone who can keep their hatred out of the issues.

OMG, usually no channel dares to interview Dr.Galloway, and when channels do, the get knocked OUT. Everything he said is perfectly correct, i really thank onegoodmove for posting this vid. it shows the other side, the other half, THE TRUTH.

THANK YOU. WAKE UP PPL.

there's nothing "dishonest" about illuminating the fact that Nineteen countries, most of whom call for israel's destruction, have more sway in the UN's halls and chambers ("echo" chambers!) than one country does.

there are ample UN debates concerning israel, and the security council has repeatedly condemned it, but there's never been a resolution critical of arab attacks on israel. emergency special sessions of the General Assembly are rare... no such session has ever been convened to address the Chinese occupation of Tibet, the Indonesian occupation of East Timor, the Syrian occupation of Lebanon, the slaughters in Rwanda, the disappearances in Zaire or the horrors of Bosnia. for about 2 decades, these sessions have been called primarily to condemn Israel.

as former UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeane_Kirkpatrick) said back in 2001, “The UN has the image of a world organization based on universal principles of justice and equality. In reality, when the chips are down, it is nothing other than the executive committee of the Third World dictatorships.”

Anonymous, Israel has received 22 United Nations resolutions not because of any bias but because of Israel's atrocities as a rogue state.

1] Since 1948, Israel has engaged in military attacks and occupation of Arab lands in the Middle East.

KIndly note that there were no Jewish country before the 1940s in the Middle East and the Jews were a tiny minority in British Palestine which was later bolstered by large scale illegal immigration of Jews from Euroope with no roots or ties to the Middle East.

2] Israel has engaged in severe human righs violations such as using violence and miliatary power to expell up to 8 million Arrabs from their homes and lands in the Middle East.

3] Israel is continuing with ladn grabs by constructing a wall on Arab lands.

4] Israel has developed a nuclear WMD programme secretly without international checks and supervision

5] Israel has pioneered the use of terrorism targeted at civilains to achieve political objectives. Its methods like targeted assainations of Arab leaders are universally condemned, along with the fact that innocent civilains are always killed by such tactics.

Any country that does just 1 of these things that Israel does would be punished by the UN with sanctions.

So far Israel has gotten no punishment with the protection of US's lone vetoe.

Clearly the present UN make-up is biased towards Israel's excesses as a rogue state.

Anonymous, get your facts right first before criticising others.

And by the way, too ashamed to back up your points with a name?

Funny thing why pro-Israeli supporters refuse to acknowledge that Israel pioneered terrorist methods to slaughter innocent civilians to achieve political ends?

After all 60 years after the first public bombing in modern Middle East, which was carried out by the Jews in Palestine, Israel is still commemorating this act of terrorism that killed 92, a death toll higher than any single Arab suicide bombing.

So far no other country is sick or perverted enough to commemorate terrorism, except for Israel.

British anger at [Jewish ]terror celebration which killed 92 20 July 06

By Ned Parker and Stephen Farrell

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2277717,00.html

The commemoration of Israeli bombings that killing 92 people has caused offence

AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

Simon McDonald, the British Ambassador in Tel Aviv, and John Jenkins, the Consul-General in Jerusalem, have written to the municipality, stating: “We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated.”

In particular they demanded the removal of the plaque that pays tribute to the Irgun, the Jewish resistance branch headed by Menachem Begin, the future Prime Minister, which carried out the attack on July 22, 1946....

An alternative Galloway's ideological rampage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUSOzUpSzvI&mode=related&search= Frankly I See little good press for. Galloway thinks we are stupid. Israel in the American press.

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kes,kes,kes...so young,so full of...piss and vinigar,as my dear ma used to say.why,it takes me right back...say,could i interest you in a nice,hot bowl of chicken soup?they make a delicious chicken soup at the king david hotel,you know.i also highly recommend the pizza at sbarro,here in jerusalem. of course, you'd have to COME AND GET IT... say, do you know what your screen name(you know,that thing from behind which you fling your overamped vitriol) means in the ethiopian tongue?its the term for their traditional spiritual leaders,specifically those of the ethiopian JEWISH community.thats right,it means "rabbi".so,rabbi,do you really get all your knowledge of history from reading u.n.transcripts? i have to say, thats one of the funniest things i've ever heard-maybe you didn't really mean it.well,you're still invited for chicken soup(or pizza)and a shmooz.ill introduce you to some of my left-wing friends.but you have to play nicely.:)p.s.if you really ARE a kes(in my experience they tend to be much softer spoken)i can take you out for some excellent injara, made from freshly ground tef.

kes, you are no more or less anonymous than i am, as "kes" reveals no demographic info about you. so it doesn't really matter, especially bec i don't plan on lingering on this site. and, i haven't criticized you personally, but instead, questioned your ideology and aggressive blogging style.

you share something in common with Galloway, besides political ideology. your contempt for others with opposing viewpoints prevents you from being taken seriously. serious scholars do not buy into lots of gusto and fierce posturing. nor should the layperson.

sure, you can be passionate about a cause, but i've been around enough narcissists to know that such romantic hyperbole is a front for more insidious things, like hatred or fear or insecurity. (i'm talking about galloway now.)

i agree with what you said above about bringing the two sides together for negotiations for the overall goal of coexistence, though i don't think the UN is a balanced enough venue. it's swayed by a club of dictators.

it sounds like you support hezbollah as freedom fighters, and would like israel to be brought to justice, however, you are not yearning for israel's destruction. right?

i also seek to address israel’s responsibilities for its role in the palestinian refugee problem, the massacre at sabra and shatila, and social and economic inequalities between jewish and arab citizens of israel.

(the oil-rich arab neighbors also play a role. tomorrow, they could pour a few million into the region, make sure arafat-esque leaders don't siphon it off, and give the palestinians some infrastructure. why hasn't this happened?)

i believe that close relations between Israel and other countries is in everyone’s best interest. as a supporter of israel, i criticize it because i want it to be better. israel’s detractors do not have that goal; they are more interested in delegitimizing the country, placing a wedge between israel and its allies, and working toward its destruction. it guess you're trying to delegitimize it without wanting its destruction?

let me reiterate jonathan becker's question (above): "can any of you historians and intellectuals recommend a good book,in english,on the history of the palestinian people,OUTSIDE THE CONTEXT OF THE ARAB/ISRAELI CONFLICT?"

i would also like such a recommendation. i am interested in exploring your understanding of history.

to my knowledge, the arabs native to palestine in the 1920s, 30's, 40s, which included bedouins, druze, and erstwhile syrians and jordanians, had no official governing body, no parliment, no flag, no anthem, etc... gaza was owned by egyptians, the west bank was owned by jordanians, and the north was owned by syrians. and, the vast majority of land was legally purchased by jews from remote and absent landlords. the deeds and records exist to this day.

in 1936, outbreaks of arab attacks on jews were incited by syrian guerrilla fawzi al-qawukji, killing and wounding 100s of jews. at the height of the arab revolt in 1938, many arab landowners had been so terrorized by arab rebels, they decided to leave palestine and sell their property to the jews.

after the jews introduced irrigation to the arid land, everyone wanted it, and to reap the benefits of the jews' backbreaking labor....

as victor davis hanson puts it, "Israel's astounding success is a constant irritant to many nearby Muslims, representing the infidel's ability to fashion a prosperous Middle Eastern society without oil revenues under democratic auspices."

indeed, israel enjoys a high-tech economy, exporting millions. Intel, Microsoft, IBM, etc develop their innovations there. israeli researchers win world prizes For medical developments. israel has 3 of its own satellites in orbit. THIS is my favorite israeli export: http://www.liel.net/movies/clintonandliel.wmv

since 1948 israeli leaders have sought peace treaties with the arab states, but egypt and jordan are the ONLY nations that have signed them.

now, israel is waging an offensive because they're sick and tired of being constantly attacked by the puppets of syria and iran, and having their soldiers kidnapped. notice how the UN and other nations announce that they are planning to "convene" or take action about this, but they seem to be in no urgent hurry. they are stalling because the world wants to give israel time to finish the job. israel is doing the world's dirty work because hezbollah is pretty much everybody's enemy.

kes, i have sources, as i'm sure you do. i won't convince you, you won't convince me. so i probably will end with this.

a few final reactions to your statements:

the jews do have ancestral ties to israel and most of the mideast. there's plenty of archeological evidence in aramaic, farsi, greek and latin to prove it.

america also reserves a day to celebrate our bloody victory over the british. does Independence Day commemorate "terrorism?" i don't believe this is even comparable to terrorism.

The question of whether or not Israel has a right to exist I find offensive.

me too, jo ann.

as for kes' run-down of the mideast situation, i don't believe one can just list events in the 1] 2] 3] 4] 5] 6] 7] fashion, and NOT be reductionistic.

i also agree with Anon about Galloway. he's way too brash ("posturing" is the perfect word) to have credibility. he's got a chip on the ol' shoulder, not insight.

A good book about the history of Palestine is "FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL" By Joan Peters. I believe it is out of print but can be found some libraries.

yeah James, i agree with you, the Jews should just let go of the past and all that "promised land" crap and just let the Middle East remain in the hands of the Arabs. Much better accomodations for them in NY anyway.

3cheers, reductionism is something that Israel does not, not me.

Israeli talking points:

  • The Arabs started it.

  • The Arabs are terroists.

  • The Israelis are victims and the Arabs are terrorists.

Such reductionism even reduces away the need for facts to back this up.

Small wonder why Israel had received 22 United Nations Resolutions to denouncie its atrocities, military aggression and rogue state behaviour.

Johnathan Becker, I recommend that you read the official documents and primary sources on the history of the palestinian people:

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF?OpenDatabase

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/

I noticed that the pro-Israeli crowd here goes after historians who criticise Israel, so I suggest that you read the documents.

On readings outside the Palestine-Isrel cionflict on the Palestinian people, you might want to try these.

Marcia Kunstel and Joseph Albright, "Their Promised Land."

Illene Beatty, "Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan."

Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."

Rashid Khalidi, "Blaming The Victims," ed. Said and Hitchens

Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest."

anonymous, anyone can be anonymous with no accountability accrued to anyone who can adopt such an alias.

However, as kes, I have provided my demographic info in this blog, as well as to the people here who e-mailed me. I repeat this again. I’m a Chinese living in Southeast Asia who leans towards Buddhism and Confucianism who does not have any Arab friends but I do have a Jewish cousin-in-law from Israel and that I do not identify with Islam, Judiasm and Christianity.

As a real person, I also have a responsibility to account and explain my points. And unlike many here, I based my points based on history and facts, which you seem uninterested in.

That's the difference between you and me, anonymous. Do you have the courage to put an identity behind your remarks when you go after people here on flimsy grounds and misleading statements? Obviously not.

Btw, I’m aggressive when the person I’m talking is the same. There are people here who correspond with me privately and they can back me on this.

Anonymous, what do you know of my political ideology? You know nothing and you have no facts to back up comments like “you share something in common with Galloway, besides political ideology. your contempt for others with opposing viewpoints prevents you from being taken seriously. serious scholars do not buy into lots of gusto and fierce posturing.”

Many here have fought for their views with equal gusto. You take umbrage with me not just because I disagreed with your views but I showed how empty your views are. Personal smears are a contemptible strategy adopted by those with no proof and facts and have to resort to attacking the person to avoid the issues he raised.

And before you put words into my mouth, my blogs are simple to pose counter-points to the even more aggressive and misleading posts by Zak and other pro-Israeli crowd to whitewash history in Israel’s favour. I wonder why you did not target them. Perhaps they support your own brand of antagonistic ideology?

Oh yeah, you admitted as much in your last post.

Unlike them, I can be more objective as I have nothing to gain by criticising Israel and only a lot personal attacks as a result of it. Even Norm here has weathered his own fair share of attacks simply because the pro-Israeli crowd is on a cyber witch hunt against those who identify with the suffering Lebanese civilians by their postings or articles they provide here for the reading pleasure of others.

And unlike people like you, I studied history. I won’t let people tell a lie so many times that people think it is truth.

That’s the main diff between you and I, anonymous.

I’ve made my views quite clear many times. Israel has no legitimate right to exist as a state on Arab lands that it has stolen and taken by military force, especially when 80% of the Jews in Israel immigrated from Europe with no ancestry or roots in the Middle East. Israel clearly has no right to exist if it prevents the local Arab majority from exercising their right to self-determination on ancestral Arab lands where the Arabs had lived continuously for 1400 years.

As a minority in the region of Palestine who formed only less than 20% of the total population and owned less than 10% of the lands, the Jews in Palestine clearly needed the consent of the local Arab majority in the region to set up a Jewish state on Arab lands as the local Arabs formed over 80% of the population and owned more than 50% of the land.

Even the Balfour declaration of 1917, which is pro-Jew, makes it clear that Arab consent to any Jewish state is necessary [read the last part]

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

This is a view supported by other international treaties signed between the Middle East and the Allies such as the Anglo French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of the former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence.

The right of the local indigenous majority to have the right to self-determination on their lands are the cornerstone of democracy and the UN charter. By violating it by denying I and disposing this right of the Arabs, Israel clearly has no legitimate grounds to exist by displacing millions of Arabs from their lands by military aggression, acts of terrorism and illegal occupation.

That’s my view on Israel. I have said it many times here but no pro-Israeli critic here wants to read the truth and the facts behind it.

As long as Israel does not surrender the lands that it took from the Arabs by force, it is clear that close relations between Israel and other countries is not Israel’s priority.

anonymous, contrary to what you say, I do read the very few links and sources that pro-Israeli people provided.

On many occasions, I had to point out that they are dubious sources or the articles actually do not support Israel’s position.

One example is an article Valkesh provided to JUSTIFY Israel's bombings of a UN position and killing of 4 innocent UN observers, which they claimed was not seen as a mistake on the part of Israel.

He and Zak obviously did not read the second page, which I did, that ironically condemned the Israeli's direct hit on the United Nations outpost on the second page:

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/07/a_myth.html#comments

On your side points. Israel has a high tech economy because it has received US$4 billion in aid, as well as high tech arms from US every year for decades. It is hard to conceive not having such an economy with such advantages. That’s my point from the start, anonymous.

On your comment on the role of oil rich neighbours to help Arab palestinians, they probably don’t see the need to invest in infrastructure for the Palestinians that Israel will destroy anyway. Some have done a lot, while others like Lebanon (due to Israel’s military attacks and occupation?) are too poor to help.

“In Jordan, most Palestinians are full citizens, and enjoy a standard of living generally equivalent to other Jordanians. Fewer than one in eight Palestinian refugees in Jordan lives in a camp, and most camps have effectively become urban neighbourhoods”:

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/mepp/new_prrn/background/index.htm

Strange you are unaware of this?

Or are you saying that the Arab countries have the obligation to take in the Arab refugees fleeing from israeli's military aggression, so that they won't return to claim their Arab ancestral lands?

Wishful thinking. UN has already said that the Arabs who were displaced from their lands in the MIddle East have the right to return for decades.

===

Hezbollah are an Arab resistance movement that grew up in South Lebanon, as a reaction against Israeli’s unlawful and invasion of South Lebanon for 18 years. Any country whose fighters are fighting an occupation are called freedom fighters, are they not? Just because they are Arab and fighting against Israel’s occupation should not make them an exception, right? Why else would the civilians of Lebanon consider the Hezbollah national heroes for their part in forcing Israel to withdraw from South Lebanon after its 18-year occupation.

The Hezbollah also runs a legitimate network of charities and social organisation in Lebanon. I find your attempt to paint all Arabs who fight Israel as terrorists very much a racist and unsubstantiated position.

After all, I think terrorist do fit the description of the Jews in Plaestine who was the first to use public bombings that targeted innocent civilains to achieve political ends:

British anger at [Jewish] terror celebration which killed 92 20 July 06

By Ned Parker and Stephen Farrell

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2277717,00.html

Your comment that there was no Arab state on the lands where Israel occupy does not justify the Israelis from taking them by force and expelling 8 million Arabs from their homes in Palestine, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and West Bank and for preventing 4.75 million Palestinian refugees to return to their lands in Israel.

Your knowledge in Arab land laws and history is clearly deficient. The Arab riots were a nationalistic reaction against the large scale illegal immigration of Jews from Europe to colonise the region of Palestine from the 1920s onwards. This is totally justified as the Jews did not seek Arab consent for the Jewish colonisation of the Arab region of Palestine in the first place.

Even though Gandhi did not support the violence, he supported Arab’s nationalist response to the large scale Jewish colonisation of Palestine:

"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr.

Proof:

1] In 1919, the American King-Crane Commission spent six weeks in Syria and Palestine, interviewing delegations and reading petitions. Their report stated, "The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favor...The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish "The Israel-Arab Reader" ed. Laquer and Rubin. 2] "Britain's high commissioner for Palestine, John Chancellor, recommended total suspension of Jewish immigration and land purchase to protect Arab agriculture. He said 'all cultivable land was occupied; that no cultivable land now in possession of the indigenous population could be sold to Jews without creating a class of landless Arab cultivators'...The Colonial Office rejected the recommendation." John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."

3] "An article by Yitzhak Epstein, published in Hashiloah in 1907...called for a new Zionist policy towards the Arabs after 30 years of settlement activity...Like Ahad-Ha'am in 1891, Epstein claims that no good land is vacant, so Jewish settlement meant Arab dispossession...Epstein's solution to the problem, so that a new "Jewish question" may be avoided, is the creation of a bi-national, non-exclusive program of settlement and development. Purchasing land should not involve the dispossession of poor sharecroppers. It should mean creating a joint farming community, where the Arabs will enjoy modern technology. Schools, hospitals and libraries should be non-exclusivist and education bilingual...The vision of non-exclusivist, peaceful cooperation to replace the practice of dispossession found few takers. Epstein was maligned and scorned for his faintheartedness." Israeli author, Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, "Original Sins."

Anonymous was also very wrong in his claim that “the vast majority of land was legally purchased by jews from remote and absent landlords. the deeds and records exist to this day.” The British had designated 65% of the total land area in Palestine for the Arabs, who already owned more than 50% anyway:

"In 1948, at the moment that Israel declared itself a state, it legally owned a little more than 6 percent of the land of Palestine...After 1940, when the mandatory authority restricted Jewish land ownership to specific zones inside Palestine, there continued to be illegal buying (and selling) within the 65 percent of the total area restricted to Arabs. Thus when the partition plan was announced in 1947 it included land held illegally by Jews, which was incorporated as a fait accompli inside the borders of the Jewish state. And after Israel announced its statehood, an impressive series of laws legally assimilated huge tracts of Arab land (whose proprietors had become refugees, and were pronounced 'absentee landlords' in order to expropriate their lands and prevent their return under any circumstances)." Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine." Thus it is clear that the Jews did not own the lands that later became part of Israel as the lands belonged to the Arabs legally. Anonymous, kindly stop misleading people or find facts to back up your case.

You ignore the point that most of the Jews in Israel came from Europe, whose ancestors had never lived in the Middle East. In 1991, President Bush Sr’s administration publicly rebuked Israel’s request for a US$5 billion aid to resettle SOVIET JEWS in the Middle East on illegally seized Arab lands.

Israel is still up to the same nonsense about colonising the Middle East for the Jews to this very day:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gorenberg22may22,0,3864678.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

The Jews have no Ancestral ties to the mideast. There are little archaeological evidence to support this such as the Jewish kingdoms of David and Solomon that was supposedly based in Jerusalem:

“Or did he? Outside of the Bible, there is only the scantest evidence of either King's existence. A mere two commemorative inscriptions have been found referring to a "House of David," both from a later period. Solomon's trail is even colder. His name appears on a cylindrical seal owned by a London collector, but it may not be the same Solomon and the object's provenance is cloudy.

Few experts believe that the father-and-son team's Unified Kingdom could have stretched, as Kings claims, "from the [Euphrates] River... to the Border of Egypt." A vocal minority of historians known as biblical minimalists claim that most of Kings was a myth concocted hundreds of years later to legitimize a later regime. ("He was making it up," says University of Copenhagen minimalist Niels Peter Lemche, of Kings' anonymous editor.) The minimalists argue that there is no good reason beyond piety to think that Jerusalem in 1000 B.C. was a major city or that David and Solomon were anything more than tribal leaders. ”

http://www.time.com/time/2001/jerusalem/juda.html

====

Anonymous indulges in a cheap stunt to justify the Jews in Israel in pioneering, using and even celebrating the first act of terrorism in the Middle East.

He claimed that America also reserves a day to celebrate our bloody victory over the british when Americans fought off foreign yoke to declare independence. Indeed this is not comparable to terrorism as it is a perfect nationalistic response to foreigners who seek to rule the lands of the others such as the Palestinian fight against Israel who had destroyed thousands of Arab homes, hundreds of Arab settlements along with the Arab right to statehood.

It is again clear that anonymous is trying to reinforce the myth that as long as Israel is doing the bombing and killing of innocent civilians, it cannot be considered as terrorism.

He however, avoids my point that only Israel is perverse enough to commemorate the first act of terrorism in the Middle East, which killed 92 innocent people in Palestine. Done by the Jews in the region, the death toll is higher than any single act of suicide bombing by the Palestinians. Read for yourself:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2277717,00.html

Good interview.

But the interviewer's last statement about 'offending the dead' was horrendous. If these gullible idiots can be dragged along by accusations of 'liberal bias' then surely they can weaned off worthless little platitudes like that.

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Bomb Tel Aviv, that's all I have to say. It would be about bloody time someone put this mad dog Israeli teerorist state in its place.

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