Did they name it after the crocodile in Peter Pan?

oh, how cute. you think evidence matters to creationists.

^LOL!!!!!

I nearly fell off my chair on that one!

I don't think they care at all about the creationists, really. If they're trying to convince anyone, it's probably fence sitters.

Even then, I'd be more inclined to think that they don't care so much about evidence as they do about information, where a discovery like this could well help to refine biological theories

Here's a link that shows a cast of the fossil & an artists interpretation of what the creature looked like:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0406/p02s01-stss.html

Oh man--I saw the headline on my XML feed and thought it was a funny pic of Tom Delay or George W. Just a prehistoric alligator-looking thing. Pretty cool though--heard about it on BBC world service just tonight.

"it will be interesting to see how the creationists react."

The way they always do denial denial denial denail.

"Quite old" then.

God merely placed the Tiktaalik roseae in Canada to fool the scientists. Christians know that He created man in only one day.

I also think that this won't teach creationists a thing. After all Archaeopteryx is around for a century and they keep telling that birds were created ("designed") as they are. So why bother..

But it's interesting on a scientific level. Tiktaalik seems quite big to me, after all, if memory serves me right, Ichtyostega was about 30 cm small. It seems quite strange that vertebrae developed from fish like Eusthenopteron, which wasn't bigger than Ichtyo to forms almost ten times as big and back to small again. I guess we'll find even more transitional species in all kinds of sizes.

Cool discory, though! Evolution is just so much more fun!

Actually they named it after the natve word for "big fish thing" See http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/ This is one of the cooler discoveries, but can you imagine digging for fossils near the arctic circle?

Embrace your inner fish:

http://www.trollart.com/

Well, I'm convinced. Nothing like some well preserved bones and an artist's rendering to convince me of evolution. Whew! For a minute there I thought it was just a fantastic discovery of a prehistoric animal previously unknown. But no, it's a "link" dammit! I'm not a creationist or intelligent design defender, but I do believe in the Bible's account of Creation. I think the evolutionists and the intelligent design/creationist people deserve each other. I love the a fossil's discovery has become a way of maligning one another. Poor dumb animal, it never knew how significant it'd be. I suppose the recent aerial photograph's of an ark shaped anomaly on Mt. Ararat, with the same rough dimensions of the ark from the bible's account, was not so much exciting, but as a way to dig at your evolutionist neighbor. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11747932/

Hi Johnny, I find it odd how Creationists can ignore fossil records of creatures that existed in millions of years.

If dinoasurs lives just 6000 years ago, there would have been a lot of written records about it in cultures all over the world.

By the way, the Chinese civilisation have records going back to more than 5000 years and there was no mention of Noah's flood. The only flood that was mentioned was the one managed by Emperor Xia who created a new system of dmas. He was most definitely not a Christian.

And the picture you included is not labelled as the ark. Did you read through the article?

"Images taken by aircraft, intelligence-gathering satellites and commercial remote-sensing spacecraft are fueling an intensive study of the intriguing oddity. But whether the anomaly is some geological quirk of nature, playful shadows, a human-made structure of some sort, or simply nothing at all — that remains to be seen."

The discovery of the missing link between fish and land walkers is far more conclusive and is backed up by real proof unlike the so-called ark findings.

But thanks for the information anyway. But kindly do more homework when you insult evolutionists, who come from people of all races, nationality and religions.

“Well, I'm convinced. Nothing like some well preserved bones and an artist's rendering to convince me of evolution. Whew! For a minute there I thought it was just a fantastic discovery of a prehistoric animal previously unknown.”

Because it not just a fossil of some random creature we never heard of but instead it fits exactly into the pattern evolution theory predicts. If you believe in god creationism then you have to think that god on purpose made it look like evolution occurs. Read the article and you will see that it clearly shows relationships between future creatures. It is the pattern that the fossil record provides which is so clearly in support of evolution.

Unlike creationism it would be so easy to disprove evolution. If any creature was ever found that was more advanced in the evolutional process but dated before a creature that was less advance in the evolutional process.

The fact that this have never ever occurred but instead the fossil records fits perfectly into what evolution would predict. This leads to evolution being by far the most logical answer for the fossil record that exists.

Another key point against Noah and his ark.

Did Noah brought any plants to sustain the animals. The close relationship between plants and animals are what keeps the planet going.

In fact, the relationship with plants can form a major aspect in evolution.

Check this out:

Plants helped ants evolve, Harvard study finds 6 Apr 2006

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060406/scnm/scienceantsdc;ylt=AqhrpgBvT5HfJfm7zAkW6Ems0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MzV0MTdmBHNlYwM3NTM- Thu Apr 6, 5:23 PM ET Ants evolved far earlier than previously believed, as far back as 140 million to 168 million years ago -- and they have plants to thank for their diversity, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday. A team at Harvard University who used a genetic clock to reconstruct the history of ants found the ant family first arose more than 40 million years earlier than previously thought, but did not diversify into different genera and species until flowering plants came onto the scene.

Creationists are the people who believe in the ridiculous notion of dinosaurs existing 6,000 years ago. Of course the fossil record indicates otherwise. The bible never says the 6 creative days were literal 24 hour days but indefinite periods of time.
I did read the article about the anomaly which is how I referred to it. It is just an interesting anomaly until proven otherwise. Additionally regarding the Chinese; I think it might be interesting for you to know that the chinese character for flood is a vessel with for individuals inside. Hmmm.
The existence of animals being around thousands or even more likely millions of years before man, only proves intlelligent design and evangelical fundamenlalists wrong not serious bible scholars and students who have known for sometime that the Hebrew and Greek words used have much broader translations regarding time and timeframes. Thanks p.s. You gotta admit it is an interesting photo of Ararat.

I was going to post the link but it's too damn long but it's worth reading Space.com's remarks about the photo on Ararat. The link is found about a quarter of the way into the MSNBC article. Have a good day everyone.

Hi Johnny Rocket, you got the Chinese character for flood all wrong.

It is 2 characters and none of them resemble a Ark.

It may interest you to know that Chinese characters are ideographs i.e. characters that resemble the shape of the object they are describing.

I repeat my point again. In the over 5000 years of history of Chinese civilisation, there was no mention of Jesus, the Great Flood and the Ark or Adam and Eve.

And as one of the main civilisation in the world since time memorial, our account of histroy contributes as a major counter-point opposing to the Christian view of world history.

Sorry, I meant the chinese character for "ship". I was going from memory. I listed a few interesting items about chinese flood myths. If you want the source materials I can email over references.

1)The book China—A History in Art tells us that one of the ancient rulers of China was Yü, “the conqueror of the Great Flood. Yü channeled flood waters into rivers and seas to resettle his people.” Mythology expert Joseph Campbell wrote about the Chinese “Period of the Great Ten,” saying: “To this important age, which terminates in a Deluge, ten emperors were assigned in the early Chou-time mythology. Hence, it appears that what we are viewing here may be a local transformation of the series of the old Sumerian king list.” Campbell then cited other items from Chinese legends that appeared to “reinforce the argument for a Mesopotamian source.” That takes us back to the same basic source of many myths. However, the story of the Flood also appears in the Americas, for example, in Mexico during the period of the Aztecs in the 15th and 16th centuries C.E

2)According to the Chinese flood legend, the thunder god gives a tooth to two children, Nuwa and Fuxi. He instructs them to plant it and to take shelter in the gourd that would grow from it. A tree promptly grows from the tooth and produces a huge gourd. When the thunder god causes torrential rainfall, the children climb into the gourd. Though the resulting flood drowns all the rest of earth’s inhabitants, Nuwa and Fuxi survive and repopulate the globe.

3)It is of interest that the Chinese character for “ship” is derived from the idea of “eight persons in a vessel.” This bears a striking resemblance to the Bible account about Noah and his family, eight persons, who survived the Flood in an ark.

I hate referring to "christian" websites but this one had a pretty good breakdown and I could post it quicker. http://www.bibleprobe.com/chinese.htm

Thanks for acknowledging that your comments on Chinese history came from Christian hacks, who was to give legitimacy to Christian history by finding proof from other cultures.

They fail because they can only make superficial and sweeping connections.

Chinese characters are ideographs i.e. graphical representations of the things they represent. The Chinese character for mountian looks a mountain range.

Thus a Chinese character for canoe looks like a canoe i.e. 1 dot in the middle to signify the boatmen, the stroke in the middle to signify the plank he sits on.

The Chinese character for a ship looks like the Chinese chacter for canoe on the left hand side and the Chinese character for sails on the left hand side.

I see no connection to the Ark.

Kindly do not bring this point up because it is not relevant to the discussion.

You failed to make your point. But by insulting me, you just make yourself look like the christian hacks you referred to. No, my source is not from that site, I just found a quick link to reference. If you had read my comment you would have realized that.

My point in all of this was, just to point out how "discoveries" are used to insult one another. You proved my point perfectly. It certainly wasn't to discuss the validity of Ark mythology, let alone Chinese flood myths. I responded so as to not appear rude. Since you have now established the "irrelevance" of this topic of conversation and set aside politeness I think I can kindly say "Get stuffed". Much love.

It might interests you to know that the legend that you quoted of NUwa and Fuxi is one of the more obscure ones.

Yes Nuwau was said to have repaired heavens when a hold in the sky led to a great flood.

However, the Chinese scholars cannot find any credit to this legend as they have found an uninterrupted pattern of human settlement, agriculure and porcelain making for more than 10,000 years, which strteched back way beyond the Biblical flood 4500 years ago.

So your case has no merit again.

Do note that floods were also common the further we go back into time with the warming temperatures after the Ice Age, where the melting glaciers raised water levels to never-before heights.

So even if there are floods in the past, that does not mean that they are Noah's flood. Kindly take note of the chronology and the local gepgraphy, please.

Christian hacks also start with looking for the things they want to find and fail to verify them once they find it.

I'm sorry but Christians have misrepresented many things in Chinese history and culture for their own ends like evengelism.

For example, the Chinese practise paying respects to the memory of our ancestors, which is a custom that was around way before Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism even appeared.

Thanks to ignorant Christian evangelists, many young Chinese thinks its superstitious because Christians call this custom ancestral worship.

Since finding this out, I have made sure that Christian pastors make public apologies everytime I catch them mentioning ancestral worship in their masses.

Sorry for the anger but I have nothing for contempt for such Christian preachers who don't know what they are talking about and still try to convince others they do. They have utterly no tolerance or humility and they presume to teach others these things????

Johnny Rocket Pants, are you ok?

Did I insult you by taking the time to tell you how Chinese characters look like, including the proper depiction of the Chinese character of ship, which does not possess "eight persons in a vessel" as you claimed?

If so, I apologise for I assumed that you were interested in the truth and in an honest and robust debate.

I am a Chinese, who studied Chinese History and language. And I have the right to correct any erronous or biased views put forth by foreigners about Chinese culture and history.

Chinese history and culture should not be rewritten simply to suit the agenda of the people who are behind the Christian website you quoted.

I'm more than prepared to discuss this further with you if you can produce secular historical texts to support what you say.

Sorry for the typos. It should be as the following:

"Yes Nuwau was said to have repaired heavens when a hole in the sky led to a great flood.

However, Chinese scholars cannot find any credit to this legend as they have found an uninterrupted pattern of human settlement, agriculure and porcelain going back in time to more than 10,000 years agao, which streches back way beyond the Biblical flood of 4500 years ago."

I'm not sure, but I don't think Joseph Campbell is considered a christian hack. There are many, MANY, secular scholars who find similarities in mythology. It's a really interesting field of study. Side point: Discontinue reading if you like.

"Christians", although not necessarily all of them, have their own acestral worship. It was called All Souls Day or more commonly Halloween (Samhain originally). It was a day set aside to remember the dead.

"Halloween’s roots, although not found in the Bible, can be traced back to a pagan origin. The pre-Christian Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all celebrated a festival for the dead. These ancients believed that on these occasions the spirits of the dead returned; therefore food was left for them and lamps were kept burning so they would not lose their way."

The Encyclopedia of Religion says: “The Christian festival, the Feast of All Saints, commemorates the known and unknown saints of the Christian religion just as Samhain had acknowledged and paid tribute to the Celtic deities."

My point: October 31st and November 1st are both set aside for commemorating the dead (in one way or another). This coincides with the biblical date of the flood. Which falls between the two dates (the 31st and 1st).

Not a big fan of ministers either.

No offense meant and none taken, Johnny. I'm fine with going further in with this subject.

When I meant hacks, I was referring to the Christian website you referred to.

Joseph Campbell is a controversial writer and he focused in compaprative history and mythology. His focus on discovering similarities between diverse cultures have often been at the expense of going deeper into the materials or ignoring the differences between them. Read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JosephCampbell#BooksandarticlescriticalofCampbell

http://www.jcf.org/about_jc.php

As for your comments on Halloweenm, it is similar to why we celebrate the end of the year as Christimas comes with its fair share of pagan traditions.

What this shows is simply that early Christians do not have a purist view of Christianity and were able to bring their own traditions into Christianity once they were converted.

In fact, the Puritan Christians in US wanted to do away with Christmas in the 19th Century because of tis pagan history.

I'm wondering what kind of a "credit" these chinese scholars are looking for. Some type of signature or byline perhaps? Who wrote Gilgamesh? Just because you can't prove it's authorship doesn't disprove it's importance to history. Legends and myths are full of inaccuracies and fanciful leaps of imagination. It is interesting only to note the similarities between the myths of different cultures. The character of ship does depict the vessel with eight mouths inside. Does it mean conclusively that the Chinese believed in a biblical flood? No, but it is interesting to take note of and to research.

Oh, and being Chinese doesn't necessarily mean you are an unassailable authority on this subject. Just because I'm Irish doesn't mean I disregard comments on Irish history made by someone else of non-irish descent. (I would disregard them because I'm brilliant :)) I'm kidding, I'm a moron. But I have researched this quite a bit. The world is a lot smaller than you could ever realize. There is a commonality of beliefs and myths between all cultures. This type of anthropology is immensely satisfying and endlessly fascinating.

Don't worry about the grammar. Mine was so bad in previous posts, I had to change my name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood

The early christians didn't celebrate any holidays but one. These were all innovations made by later so-called "christians" who started to adopt local customs and holidays for political reasons.
Christianity today is hardly represenative of the bible or early christians. The pomposity and hypocrisy of what passes for christianity makes it an easy target for anyone who wants to make it bleed. It has it coming too.
Religion is dying in a big way and in public view. It's been a long time coming.
I make a distinction between the bible and the first century christians from what followed shortly after the late 2nd and 3rd centuries.

Hi Jonny, when I say that Chinese scholars do not give any credit to such tales, I mean to say that they find little proof to back it up.

Such theories are proposed by non-Chinese writers who do not spend anough time to grasp a firm knowledge on Chinese hstory, chronology and culture before making sweeping statements on Chinese civilisation by comparing it to other civilisations.

In Chinese history, there is no Biblical flood that happened 4500 years ago. Chinese civilisation was remarkably stable and settled down since Neolithic times with the discovery of agriculture.

I see no relevance in trying to prove otherwise unless it is to impose a Christian view on history on Chinese civilisation to give Christianity more legitimacy in terms of historical credibility.

My point about being Chinese is to let you know that I have the right background to give you answers. Nothing more.

And I have no agenda beyong correcting any misconceptions of Chinese culture or history.

I for one believe that each and everyone of us are unique just as our cultures were in their own ways.

And connformity simply to prove the superiority of one school of though on weak or baseless grounds should be avoided at all costs.

Life has its riches in diversity, not monotony.

For me, I just hope to see a clear and meaningful distinction between the bible and a Christian.

oh no! i have to believe in evolution now! they found more bones!! wow

somthing died! oh wait, does that mean that the "Aquada" boat slash

car, proves that boats turn into cars if you give them a couple

trillion years? hmm mabye people will think that in the future, if the

car/boat survives a million years in ice, then the next species will

think so. Im curious, so i dont waste my freakin life having no point other then

to live life to the fullest(even though i know that im just telling

myself that to make me think im happy ) is there any better proof that

evolution is real? because i was forced to go to your church ever sence

middle school biology, while they try to convince me that nothing

creates everything. and i believed that for 7 years, because i had

nothing else to believe. but I guess ill have to go to the christians

because their only ones sceptical enough to go against the theory of

evolution. what evolutionist preacher is going to tell me about the

flaws of his religion anyway, i havent found one yet. you have found some truth to strengthn your belief in your god, but did

you need it? no your faith is sufficient enough. the problem is will,

not truth or faith. you have to want it first. and what you may want is

no god. you get what you want . You dont live untill you find somthing

to die for. ill pray that god shows himself true in your life as he did

in mine.

-i care what happens to you, but he cares more

Hi Wayne, I am an theist but I am also a practitioners of humanistic philopohies like Buddhiam.

Even if I had no beliefs, I find many things wirth living for i.e. wellbeing of familty, nation and the world.

So I have to disagree with your comments on the basis that the world is a lot more than just "me, me, me" or even "me with god" type of mentality.

Life on Earth is worth living with or without religion. The exsitence of afterlife or heaven does not make you stay on Earth redundant.

understood, however, i was trying to draw more attention to those whose lives are in suffering, people born into sickness etc. i have already come out of my suffering

what you metioned has great meaning, other people has become my ultimate meaning however not just my family.

-God will use suffering to reach you, without it, you would never turn to him nor would you need him.

understood, however, i was trying to draw more attention to those whose lives are in suffering, people born into sickness etc. i have already come out of my suffering(arent you a pantheist?)

what you metioned has great meaning, other people has become my ultimate meaning however not just my family.

-God will use suffering to reach you, without it, you would never turn to him nor would you need him.

"God will use suffering to reach you, without it, you would never turn to him nor would you need him."

So God is into blackmail? Sorry, I fight bullies as well as poor attemtps at rationalisation by people to explain why God's impotence in allowing disasters to happen.

According to Chinese culture, Heaven will inflict suffering on those who are able and chosen to perform tasks for the good of all while they can choose not to beleiev in Heaven.

I lean towards our cultural understading of Heaven, not your God.

Excuse me, but I have been to hell and back over the past three years.. breast cancer, ending up in ICU because of bleeding, and after recovering from all of that I find out that my father has Alzheimer's and it is my Christian family who wants to keep him in this awful, filthy nursing home (and they won because they are Christians and I am an atheist), and it was not someone's idea of God that helped me through all of this. It was friends who helped me, not some imaginary being.