Normally these kinds of things are specious and silly, but his results are verifiable & repeatable. The inability of the pellets to penetrate as deep as they did lays bare the lie. However, Cheney probably doesn't have a good sense of distance. This prooves that Cheney made a false statement (nothing new there); a deliberate attempt to cover something up is a more difficult allegation to substantiate.

I'm fairly disappointed that it didn't show the ballistic dummy being shot at 15ft.

Otherwise, they did a great job. I enjoyed watching this a lot.

This is interesting but hardly scientific or conclusive. Do they even mention that you can adjust the pattern and size of a cloud of birdshot by modifying your gun barrel?

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Patternandchoke

This isn't as scientific as it could be. There are variables such as the mrksmanship of the tester and relative strength of material nd the fact that only one shot was made at each type of target.

Ballistic jell would have been better for demonstrating depth of penetration at range and you need more that one test shot to get relative density of the shot at different distances.

Howevfer, having said that, the conclusions from this test matched my own perception of the situation.

I grew up in a house full of guns and spent most of my child hood hunting, shooting, and hanging out at turkey shoots. For those familiar with turkey shoots, the spread pattern of your shot gun is what it's all about.

Number seven shot is very small, certainly smaller than ,177 calibre BBs.

I had not heard Cheney's 30 yard claim but had read about the size and density of the shot pattern. My assumption, before Cheney's claim was that the shot was fired from twenty to twenty five feet.

Based on a wasted childhood, spent obsessively testing things like spread patterns created by different weapons with different loads, I reached the same conclusion the tester came to.

for a low mass piece of number seven steel shot to penetrate the heart, or even the lining around the heart, would require being MUCH closer than thirty yards.

But, if he was drunk enough to mistake a lawyer for an innocent little quail, he was drunk enough to not actually know how close he was.

Sweeping the shotgun, 180 degrees is bozo stuff to start with. To me it indicates that he was drunk. Sloppy and clumsy. He pulled the trigger much later than he intended to.

I confess to having been drunk with a gun, a couple of times. Firing the gun a second later than you had meant to is not uncommon in that condition.

My 14 cents worth.

Isn't a little too much being made of this? Not by people on here, but the media in general? If he was drinking, so what? Right? Judging by many people's reasoning during Clinton's term, don't these outside issues have no relevance? Lying to grand juries, extra-marital affairs, getting drunk and injuring someone?

Well, one major difference, Cheney, unlike Clinton, isn't being impeached for shooting someone in the face and lying about it.

What one must wonder, is just how many free passes do these people get?

What hasn't Cheney or Bush lied about lately? It's another example of how everything, invoving the upper echelons of the party and the present government, is intentionally hidden, lied about, then quickly forgotten as though it didn't happen.

Bush said Cheney's explanation was "powerful". Yes, a "powerful explanation". Seems a very odd choice of words.

Bush and Cheney and Simple Scotty McClelan are like characters from the old lawyer joke.

Q. How do you know they're lieing?

A. Their mouths are moving.

Stephen is right: Who cares if they're drinking and shooting one another. But Alex Jones has at least two valid points: Why had they been able to keep the police out of this for so long? Why did they put Harry in another hospital?

I think the answer is obvious, and that would explain the delay in informing the press as well: They just didn't know how dangerous it was. Keeping the police out, going to a less sophisticated hospital helps you fabricating a softball story in case Harry died. In that case they'd have put the blame on Harry - I'm absolutely sure of that.

They drink, they shoot, they hit one another, I couldn't care less - but they should be held responsible for it.

And Stephen: the difference between shooting someone and lying about it - and having sex with someone and lying about it? Do we really have to talk about this?

I was under the impression that the BB migrated to his heart, rather than penetrated straight to it. So it's not entirely implausible.

Still, the points about spray size, and whether the BB's would actually penetrate deep enough to reach blood vessels stand.

The bit of shot actually hit the lining of the heart. The migration theory was produced after the man had a heart attack and the shot was discovered.

Re: any drift associated with the bit of shot; the migration of shot, bullets, and shrapnel, left in the human body is a slow process. Also, the movements are measured in micro meters.

For the shot to touch the heart, it had to penetrate the chest cavity, going through a lot of muscle and connective tissues. The lining around the heart, itself, is very tough material.

Number 7 1/2 steel shot, as described on the video, is very small, very light, and is greatly effected by air resistance. It has very little penetrating power at distance. Virtually none, at the thirty yards distance Cheney claimed he was from his victim's face.

You absolutely can NOT believe anything Alex Jones says! Alex Jones is an extreme rightwing conspiracy nut. I know his work because I'm a fellow Austinite who sees his cable show all the time. Here are some of the things Alex Jones believes. I am not making fun of Alex here; these are things he has actually said on his cable access show:

The ruling elite of the world worship Moloch. The secret rulers of the world can live forever. The elite have openly announced that they want to kill 80% of us. Vicente Fox can morph into a green devil. (Alex says he saw him do it. Honest.) The Communist Chinese Army has taken over the Massachusetts Port Authority. Jacques Cousteau wants to kill 80% of us. (Jacques, too!) There are live AIDS viruses in the corn. (This means no sex with the corn. Sorry.) 91% of Americans are Nazis (Alex says anyone who favors gun control is a Nazi; 91% of Americans favor mandatory handgun registration) The government is spraying us with EVIL CHEMICALS contained in the contrails of planes (also poisoning themselves, I guess) The United Nations goes around Africa, sterilizing women at random (twirling their moustaches & saying "Nya-ha-ha-haa!") The Founding Fathers were stupid (they were Masons––but they didn't know about the secret conspiracy so obvious to Alex & his friends) all our soldiers are stupid (our honored dead were mere fools compared to Alex Jones) Waco was a government plot. Most power outages are government plots. Illegal immigration is a government plot. The counterculture is a government plot. Vaccines are a you-know-what. Thumbscanning is a government plot. Environmentalism is a government plot. The National Seatbelt Initiative is a government plot. Feminism is a government plot. Tollroads are a government plot. Antidepressants are a government plot. All domestic terror attacks are government plots. Arnold Schwartzeneggar is part of an Austrian plot to take over America. Skull & Bones is part of an English plot to take over America. The United Nations is part of a (very slow) plot to take over America. Children's cartoons are part of a government plot to brainwash us. The secret ruling elite of the world are putting up buildings that look like owls (only conspiracy people can see these owls, in case you were wondering) Most major police chiefs are CIA operatives. Gloria Steinham is a CIA operative. The Quakers are all communists. All of Clinton's cabinet were Jewish. People have tattoos saying "Don't Kill Me" in Holland. Lyndon Johnson had John Kennedy killed. The UN has sold thousands of children into slavery & for snuff films. Gays are actively recruiting in our schools. The government keeps "giant, honeycombed hives full of toddlers drugged on lithium." The Rothschilds funded Hitler.

91% of Americans are Nazis (Alex says anyone who favors gun control is a Nazi; 91% of Americans favor mandatory handgun registration) The government is spraying us with EVIL CHEMICALS contained in the contrails of planes (also poisoning themselves, I guess. Shows you how ruthless the elite are.) The United Nations goes around Africa, sterilizing women at random (twirling their moustaches & saying "Nya-ha-ha-haa!") The Founding Fathers were stupid (they were Masons––but they didn't know about the secret conspiracy so obvious to Alex & his friends) Every soldier who died in any war since the Civil War was a chump (you thought they were heroes; turns out they were nothing but fools; how's THAT for patriotism?) Antidepressants are a government plot. The United Nations is part of a (very slow) plot to take over America. Mercury travels from Africa to Austin on the Jet Stream. That's why Austinites have so many allergies. IQ's are going down. (IQ's are going up.) The cancer rate is up. (Most cancer rates are down.) During his inauguration, President Clinton openly gave the sign of Satan for all the world to see. (They all worship Moloch, don't forget. I don't know how we get to Satan from there...but Alex says.) Alex Jones is saving humankind with his cable TV show, radio shows, & tapes (available for purchase, by the way). Bad people are deliberately putting cancer viruses, AIDS viruses, & mercury in our vaccines (twirling their long moustaches & going "Nya-hahaha!"). 9-11 was only the beginning; there are going to be lots of even bigger domestic attacks (4 years & waiting on this prediction, Alex). Most Americans believe the government was behind 9-11 (this is based on Alex's misreading of a Zogby poll; Alex misreads EVERYTHING) They sacrifice babies at Bohemian Grove. (Imagine Richard Nixon sacrificing a baby.) They only hire people with IQ's below 100 to become police officers. (Like most "Patriots," Alex Jones is essentially a cop-hater. He will say anything bad about the police.)

Alex Jones can predict the future, because he goes to the SECRET WEBSITES where the New World Order tells you EVERYTHING IT'S GOING TO DO. Just think: if you can find those websites, YOU can predict the future too!

Jones may be a nutter, but he's still correct about the shot pattern and the distance.

All the objections to Alex Jones are part of an ad hominen attack. You need to attack the evidence he provides not the man. His character is only a reason to be suspicious nothing more.