onegoodmove

I don't think there are any dangerous ideas. But the one I entered at Huffpo has to do with ideas not being sufficient to save us from ourselves. There is a form of "thinking" within us that is rather automated and I prefer to call it biosophy. It is blinkered proceding as usual given no daily evidence that we are changing the environment around us to our direct detriment. So we walk about in a bodily shell of sophistry that tells us things aren't so bad. Nothing new. Our ancestors hunted untold numbers of species to extinction, and though they had no true way of knowing that the animals wouldn't come back, they undoubtedly knew they were disappearing. Hunters know.

And where are we now, given that we have the tools to understand so much about this world? Well, we're fucked worse than ever because we know with certainty what we are causing and haven't the will as civilized people to really do much of any consequence.

Unfortunately or mental bubble won't save us. The actual environment is bringing us up short and demonstrating our ignorance to us. I don't find it hard to believe that somewhere down the road we will alter the atmosphere to the point that we have to use respirators just to go outside. We know that kind of drastic change is in the works, and what are we doing about it? What are we thinking about it? As a civilization, the best we have come up with are the Kyoto Accords, which measure just how short of the mark our efforts are and our concepts are. As individuals, we are owned by machines and the machinery of contemporary culture.

By the way, I read what's his names book The Third Culture. I thought it superficial to the point of being bogus. The distinctions were flimsy, and dangerous. There is much in art that we had better not push off the decks of our little arks. Artful responses to our existence encompass science, they do not flee from it. And science isn't eating art. I.m simplifying his distinctions as I barely remember them. But I do know they are full of the gush of hubris. Thanks Norm. I don't get to put things like this down very often. And I appreciate the forum you've notched into these internets.

In some life or death situations, the crashed aircraft on the ground being a prime example, we are asked to follow certain codes, don't panic, be cool etc. But quite often it is the person that adopts the "me" and puts self preservation to the fore, is stastiscly the person most likely to survive such incidents. Morals, manners and a dozen other arguments become secondry to the will to survive.

What's not being spoken of here is the fact that the advertising agencies have been using these techniques for almost a hundred years to get us to buy their products and since the 1920's has been used politically to sway public opinion on candidates and issues. We see in our decaying society the cycles of history being magnified by a full cycle (being approx 80-120 years*) of social control by people who's goals were not for the betterment of society but the enrichment of their pocketbooks. We have been taken control of by the snake-oil salesman that used to be run out of town on a rail!

We are told that we are not pretty enough, smart enough, cool enough or successful enough unless we buy this car, this product or achieve these goals (morgage, 2 car payments, 2.2 kids etc) and that if we don't we won't get the girl, the job or the status. When the realities of life get in the way and prevent us from getting that nice car or those societally imposed ideals, we experience loss of confidence, feelings of helplessness and subconscious frustration. This sounds to me like a major factor in the ills of society as I look around me and listen to the news. Our society is perennially depressed, increasingly agitated and growing more illogical and confused as we go.

I believe what we are seeing is the fact that for so long we have been "automated" to the point that we are no longer truly free persons, and now people are seeing the effects of the political, corporate and social "agenda" of those doing the controlling. It has become so unreal and illogical that it is tearing the fabric of our society, but by its unreality it is also striking a jangling chord in many who are "waking up" and going against the social controllers. Traditionally the press has been the bastion of the people, holding it as their goal to keep the people well informed, but once it became a profit venture and fell under the sway of the social controllers (Hearst, Murdoch etc) it became a tool to control the people.

The advent of the Internet and the WWW has brought about a sense of free-thinking and individualism and is the true voice of Democracy - The Voice of the People. Every person with a computer now has a voice and can put what they know out there on the Net for the world to read as well as reading anything anybody else has put out. Never before has there been such a strong voice of the people, and it's ability to connect individuals into cohesive power-blocs is already being seen with groups such as MoveOn.org and the Cindy Sheehan phenomena last summer.

The deprivations of the Bush administration and the social controllers for decades are being countered by the independent voices that are speaking out in cyberspace. The Internet is a realm uncontrollable by the social engineers that they must simply work within rather than creating as their own. This is why we see legislation being introduced to control the Internet, to tax and regulate it so that the puppet masters can determine what information the people see and the opinions they express. We see this happening in China where the Internet is owned, controlled and censored by the government.

If it were not for a free Internet here in the US, we would be farther down the well with no rope at all. We would know little or nothing of Plame, rendition, WMD's in Iraq etc etc etc. The internet is the saving grace of Democracy in my view, for without it we would be a nation of completely cowed sheep, being told what to think, what to buy and who to vote for. We would be clueless that there was anything wrong, with the whistleblowers and true patriots being relegated to "conspiracy theory" status.

We are close to Fascism in the US, and it is by the will of the people that we will avert it. The Internet, unregulated by government and used properly by the people, has the ability to connect the people together and avoid the loss of a nation that has held together as a bastion of freedom for over 200 years. It is time for We The People to take our country and our lives back.

• Check out "The Fourth Turning" by William Strauss and Neil Howe. It details how Western society goes through a four phase cycle that repeats every 80-120 years and the societal archetypes that act within that cycle. It is very informative and insightful in the WHY of why we are seeing things as they are. I am sure the admen and controllers are aware of these cycles and are using them to their advantage, so it is up to The People to be aware of them in order to combat them.

What's not being spoken of here is the fact that the advertising agencies have been using these techniques for almost a hundred years to get us to buy their products and since the 1920's has been used politically to sway public opinion on candidates and issues. We see in our decaying society the cycles of history being magnified by a full cycle (being approx 80-120 years*) of social control by people who's goals were not for the betterment of society but the enrichment of their pocketbooks. We have been taken control of by the snake-oil salesman that used to be run out of town on a rail!

We are told that we are not pretty enough, smart enough, cool enough or successful enough unless we buy this car, this product or achieve these goals (morgage, 2 car payments, 2.2 kids etc) and that if we don't we won't get the girl, the job or the status. When the realities of life get in the way and prevent us from getting that nice car or those societally imposed ideals, we experience loss of confidence, feelings of helplessness and subconscious frustration. This sounds to me like a major factor in the ills of society as I look around me and listen to the news. Our society is perennially depressed, increasingly agitated and growing more illogical and confused as we go.

I believe what we are seeing is the fact that for so long we have been "automated" to the point that we are no longer truly free persons, and now people are seeing the effects of the political, corporate and social "agenda" of those doing the controlling. It has become so unreal and illogical that it is tearing the fabric of our society, but by its unreality it is also striking a jangling chord in many who are "waking up" and going against the social controllers. Traditionally the press has been the bastion of the people, holding it as their goal to keep the people well informed, but once it became a profit venture and fell under the sway of the social controllers (Hearst, Murdoch etc) it became a tool to control the people.

The advent of the Internet and the WWW has brought about a sense of free-thinking and individualism and is the true voice of Democracy - The Voice of the People. Every person with a computer now has a voice and can put what they know out there on the Net for the world to read as well as reading anything anybody else has put out. Never before has there been such a strong voice of the people, and it's ability to connect individuals into cohesive power-blocs is already being seen with groups such as MoveOn.org and the Cindy Sheehan phenomena last summer.

The deprivations of the Bush administration and the social controllers for decades are being countered by the independent voices that are speaking out in cyberspace. The Internet is a realm uncontrollable by the social engineers that they must simply work within rather than creating as their own. This is why we see legislation being introduced to control the Internet, to tax and regulate it so that the puppet masters can determine what information the people see and the opinions they express. We see this happening in China where the Internet is owned, controlled and censored by the government.

If it were not for a free Internet here in the US, we would be farther down the well with no rope at all. We would know little or nothing of Plame, rendition, WMD's in Iraq etc etc etc. The internet is the saving grace of Democracy in my view, for without it we would be a nation of completely cowed sheep, being told what to think, what to buy and who to vote for. We would be clueless that there was anything wrong, with the whistleblowers and true patriots being relegated to "conspiracy theory" status.

We are close to Fascism in the US, and it is by the will of the people that we will avert it. The Internet, unregulated by government and used properly by the people, has the ability to connect the people together and avoid the loss of a nation that has held together as a bastion of freedom for over 200 years. It is time for We The People to take our country and our lives back.

• Check out "The Fourth Turning" by William Strauss and Neil Howe. It details how Western society goes through a four phase cycle that repeats every 80-120 years and the societal archetypes that act within that cycle. It is very informative and insightful in the WHY of why we are seeing things as they are. I am sure the admen and controllers are aware of these cycles and are using them to their advantage, so it is up to The People to be aware of them in order to combat them.

What's not being spoken of here is the fact that the advertising agencies have been using these techniques for almost a hundred years to get us to buy their products and since the 1920's has been used politically to sway public opinion on candidates and issues. We see in our decaying society the cycles of history being magnified by a full cycle (being approx 80-120 years*) of social control by people who's goals were not for the betterment of society but the enrichment of their pocketbooks. We have been taken control of by the snake-oil salesman that used to be run out of town on a rail!

We are told that we are not pretty enough, smart enough, cool enough or successful enough unless we buy this car, this product or achieve these goals (morgage, 2 car payments, 2.2 kids etc) and that if we don't we won't get the girl, the job or the status. When the realities of life get in the way and prevent us from getting that nice car or those societally imposed ideals, we experience loss of confidence, feelings of helplessness and subconscious frustration. This sounds to me like a major factor in the ills of society as I look around me and listen to the news. Our society is perennially depressed, increasingly agitated and growing more illogical and confused as we go.

I believe what we are seeing is the fact that for so long we have been "automated" to the point that we are no longer truly free persons, and now people are seeing the effects of the political, corporate and social "agenda" of those doing the controlling. It has become so unreal and illogical that it is tearing the fabric of our society, but by its unreality it is also striking a jangling chord in many who are "waking up" and going against the social controllers. Traditionally the press has been the bastion of the people, holding it as their goal to keep the people well informed, but once it became a profit venture and fell under the sway of the social controllers (Hearst, Murdoch etc) it became a tool to control the people.

The advent of the Internet and the WWW has brought about a sense of free-thinking and individualism and is the true voice of Democracy - The Voice of the People. Every person with a computer now has a voice and can put what they know out there on the Net for the world to read as well as reading anything anybody else has put out. Never before has there been such a strong voice of the people, and it's ability to connect individuals into cohesive power-blocs is already being seen with groups such as MoveOn.org and the Cindy Sheehan phenomena last summer.

The deprivations of the Bush administration and the social controllers for decades are being countered by the independent voices that are speaking out in cyberspace. The Internet is a realm uncontrollable by the social engineers that they must simply work within rather than creating as their own. This is why we see legislation being introduced to control the Internet, to tax and regulate it so that the puppet masters can determine what information the people see and the opinions they express. We see this happening in China where the Internet is owned, controlled and censored by the government.

If it were not for a free Internet here in the US, we would be farther down the well with no rope at all. We would know little or nothing of Plame, rendition, WMD's in Iraq etc etc etc. The internet is the saving grace of Democracy in my view, for without it we would be a nation of completely cowed sheep, being told what to think, what to buy and who to vote for. We would be clueless that there was anything wrong, with the whistleblowers and true patriots being relegated to "conspiracy theory" status.

We are close to Fascism in the US, and it is by the will of the people that we will avert it. The Internet, unregulated by government and used properly by the people, has the ability to connect the people together and avoid the loss of a nation that has held together as a bastion of freedom for over 200 years. It is time for We The People to take our country and our lives back.

• Check out "The Fourth Turning" by William Strauss and Neil Howe. It details how Western society goes through a four phase cycle that repeats every 80-120 years and the societal archetypes that act within that cycle. It is very informative and insightful in the WHY of why we are seeing things as they are. I am sure the admen and controllers are aware of these cycles and are using them to their advantage, so it is up to The People to be aware of them in order to combat them.

What's not being spoken of here is the fact that the advertising agencies have been using these techniques for almost a hundred years to get us to buy their products and since the 1920's has been used politically to sway public opinion on candidates and issues. We see in our decaying society the cycles of history being magnified by a full cycle (being approx 80-120 years*) of social control by people who's goals were not for the betterment of society but the enrichment of their pocketbooks. We have been taken control of by the snake-oil salesman that used to be run out of town on a rail!

We are told that we are not pretty enough, smart enough, cool enough or successful enough unless we buy this car, this product or achieve these goals (morgage, 2 car payments, 2.2 kids etc) and that if we don't we won't get the girl, the job or the status. When the realities of life get in the way and prevent us from getting that nice car or those societally imposed ideals, we experience loss of confidence, feelings of helplessness and subconscious frustration. This sounds to me like a major factor in the ills of society as I look around me and listen to the news. Our society is perennially depressed, increasingly agitated and growing more illogical and confused as we go.

I believe what we are seeing is the fact that for so long we have been "automated" to the point that we are no longer truly free persons, and now people are seeing the effects of the political, corporate and social "agenda" of those doing the controlling. It has become so unreal and illogical that it is tearing the fabric of our society, but by its unreality it is also striking a jangling chord in many who are "waking up" and going against the social controllers. Traditionally the press has been the bastion of the people, holding it as their goal to keep the people well informed, but once it became a profit venture and fell under the sway of the social controllers (Hearst, Murdoch etc) it became a tool to control the people.

The advent of the Internet and the WWW has brought about a sense of free-thinking and individualism and is the true voice of Democracy - The Voice of the People. Every person with a computer now has a voice and can put what they know out there on the Net for the world to read as well as reading anything anybody else has put out. Never before has there been such a strong voice of the people, and it's ability to connect individuals into cohesive power-blocs is already being seen with groups such as MoveOn.org and the Cindy Sheehan phenomena last summer.

The deprivations of the Bush administration and the social controllers for decades are being countered by the independent voices that are speaking out in cyberspace. The Internet is a realm uncontrollable by the social engineers that they must simply work within rather than creating as their own. This is why we see legislation being introduced to control the Internet, to tax and regulate it so that the puppet masters can determine what information the people see and the opinions they express. We see this happening in China where the Internet is owned, controlled and censored by the government.

If it were not for a free Internet here in the US, we would be farther down the well with no rope at all. We would know little or nothing of Plame, rendition, WMD's in Iraq etc etc etc. The internet is the saving grace of Democracy in my view, for without it we would be a nation of completely cowed sheep, being told what to think, what to buy and who to vote for. We would be clueless that there was anything wrong, with the whistleblowers and true patriots being relegated to "conspiracy theory" status.

We are close to Fascism in the US, and it is by the will of the people that we will avert it. The Internet, unregulated by government and used properly by the people, has the ability to connect the people together and avoid the loss of a nation that has held together as a bastion of freedom for over 200 years. It is time for We The People to take our country and our lives back.

• Check out "The Fourth Turning" by William Strauss and Neil Howe. It details how Western society goes through a four phase cycle that repeats every 80-120 years and the societal archetypes that act within that cycle. It is very informative and insightful in the WHY of why we are seeing things as they are. I am sure the admen and controllers are aware of these cycles and are using them to their advantage, so it is up to The People to be aware of them in order to combat them.

Sorry about the multiple posts. Ran into a server error that apparantly posted not once, not twice but THREE times. Wow am I lucky! :)

"The dangerous truth, though, is that we are indeed designed to cut conscious, aware choice out of the picture wherever possible. This is not an issue about free will, but simply about the extent to which conscious deliberation cranks the engine of behavior. Crank it it does: but not in anything like the way, or extent, we may have thought. We'd better get to grips with this before someone else does."--Andy Clark

I don't know that what Clark is speaking of is a "dangerous truth." Maybe it is just a kind of truth. We are what we are, and yes that can be manipulated grossly. We know about experiments--Stanley Milgram. We know about the banality of evil. Yes, yes, life abounds in danger. It always has and always will.

But there's a point at which Clark's "quick-thinking-zombie" arcs back to a thing we have referred to for a long, long time as instinct. We are animal beings, and though we don't have a dog's instinct for the hunt or a fish's instinct to school or spawn, we have rudimentary instincts. Even if you cut them back to things as well-known as the fight-or-flee response to danger, we have very real, if limited, auto-pilots within us. They are useful and wise beyond the individual.

So it's hard to get worked-up over Clark's thesis. Yes, education is elemental in making ourselves more deliberative. But so are our delights. They are one and the same until forces drive a wedge between them. I want my zombie-self to eat some of my self-conscious, deliberative self. I'm lost otherwise in the training of my contemporary culture. There is a magnitude of uselessness that must be conserved or we have no place to be our frivolous and ingenius selves.

If we don't have some patience with our own species (despite the looming shadows of our own potential extinction), we will end up as something other than human. Technology and our habitual disinterest in regulation sets our species in a very real crosshair. Wisdom will not stay the violence within science--it is our violence to struggle with. Why stand by ideas that provoke changing what we structurally are? Is it not enough to be homo sapiens and go on struggling with what that is? Must we all soon be genetically programed at birth to grow brains like Einstein's? When we walk away from the natural progression of Nature (and decide that our own version of Nature is an improvement), will it be because of our impatience with the quick-thinking-zombie?

Which leads me to quote I never thought I'd get to quote in a line of thought like this. "Is this the end of zombie-Shakespeare?" Seriously, don't dump on the zombie. If we evolve away from him, all right. If not, so be it. In the meantime let's talk about our true delights and see if that doesn't separate the bad-zombie from the good.

"The dangerous truth, though, is that we are indeed designed to cut conscious, aware choice out of the picture wherever possible. This is not an issue about free will, but simply about the extent to which conscious deliberation cranks the engine of behavior. Crank it it does: but not in anything like the way, or extent, we may have thought. We'd better get to grips with this before someone else does."--Andy Clark

I don't know that what Clark is speaking of is a "dangerous truth." Maybe it is just a kind of truth. We are what we are, and yes that can be manipulated grossly. We know about experiments--Stanley Milgram. We know about the banality of evil. Yes, yes, life abounds in danger. It always has and always will.

But there's a point at which Clark's "quick-thinking-zombie" arcs back to a thing we have referred to for a long, long time as instinct. We are animal beings, and though we don't have a dog's instinct for the hunt or a fish's instinct to school or spawn, we have rudimentary instincts. Even if you cut them back to things as well-known as the fight-or-flee response to danger, we have very real, if limited, auto-pilots within us. They are useful and wise beyond the individual.

So it's hard to get worked-up over Clark's thesis. Yes, education is elemental in making ourselves more deliberative. But so are our delights. They are one and the same until forces drive a wedge between them. I want my zombie-self to eat some of my self-conscious, deliberative self. I'm lost otherwise in the training of my contemporary culture. There is a magnitude of uselessness that must be conserved or we have no place to be our frivolous and ingenius selves.

If we don't have some patience with our own species (despite the looming shadows of our own potential extinction), we will end up as something other than human. Technology and our habitual disinterest in regulation sets our species in a very real crosshair. Wisdom will not stay the violence within science--it is our violence to struggle with. Why stand by ideas that provoke changing what we structurally are? Is it not enough to be homo sapiens and go on struggling with what that is? Must we all soon be genetically programed at birth to grow brains like Einstein's? When we walk away from the natural progression of Nature (and decide that our own version of Nature is an improvement), will it be because of our impatience with the quick-thinking-zombie?

Which leads me to quote I never thought I'd get to quote in a line of thought like this. "Is this the end of zombie-Shakespeare?" Seriously, don't dump on the zombie. If we evolve away from him, all right. If not, so be it. In the meantime let's talk about our true delights and see if that doesn't separate the bad-zombie from the good.

Still sumpin wrong with post thingy. Sorry.

Oh,I get it. The internets don't like people thinking about automatism, and so they play a little automatism joke on us.

Indeed. Here's the deal, even if you get an error message chances are that your comment made it through. In any case don't hit post more than once. Now copy the text of the message to your clipboard, just in case, then go to the main page hold down your shit key and hit refresh or reload and see if it's there. If it isn't you have the text of your comment on your clipboard and you can try again if you desire.

Hee, hee, shit key.

What is your dangerous idea? An idea you think about (not necessarily one you originated) that is dangerous not because it is assumed to be false, but because it might be true?

There are a few ideas which I share with others that are assumed to be false by many but I believe them to be truths.
One such idea I share is that in the entire universe we are the only intelligent beings of our kind in existence anywhere and God or a Supreme Being of some kind designed it all just for our future generations and for us.

Everything about this world is perfectly set up for our unique existence; the exact distance the Earth is from the sun, a single moon orbiting exactly the right way around our planet, a planetary rotation and a gravity strength that is perfectly suited for every creator on the Earth. These factors all shout that God or an intelligent designer of some kind is at work here. How else could it be so? Random chance? It is far easier for me to have a faith and a belief in a God who made it all possible verses believing in a phenomenally random chance theory. Do I believe in evolution? Sure I do. I would never assume that God didn’t design it that way. That would limit God’s powers and abilities. The same goes for my belief in the big bang theory. I just believe God set it all in motion.