ok but for an ignorant cannuk: since skerry conceeded.... what happens if even one of those states turns out to have voted skerry? isn t it too late?

Nah, concession is just a speech. The electoral college can choose him against his will or the will of the country if they choose to.

Besides, if you concede and then find out the other guy cheated, wouldn't you normally 'unconcede', too?

More numbers without context. This is this kind of nonsense that causes all credibility to be lost and all future comment to be dismissed as the rantings of uninformed political novices.

In 1984 Reagan received 2,730,350 votes. That year there were fewer than 2,200,000 registered Republicans -- meaning Reagan received more than 500,000 more total votes than there were registered Republicans.

And that proves what, exactly? Nothing. Of course it does provide another nugget demonstrating the fact that Florida has a ton of boll weevil Democrats in rural and northern parts of the state who have been voting overwhelmingly Republican for over 20 years ... the same ones who did so again this time.

Folks, there is no story here. Surely you can't be so naive as to think the people who invested literally tens of millions of dollars in Kerry in Florida, together with their armies of political pros who know these counties and their voters inside and out, have not combed the numbers and would not have ignited a firestorm had there been any substantive basis for doing so?

I seem to recall that Gore conceded and then uncondeded in 2000

Why is it that every damn election if a republican wins you liberals come out and try to make up some story about how he cheated...or how the voting machines were broken and people were confused and they thought they were voting for one person but didnt...just STOP. Honestly please its immmature. You just can't take the fact that a great majority of our WONDERFUL country voted republican. Not because the voting machines were broken either. Lets stick to the facts guys...

Please dont take this down because im conservative.

It's a good idea to review the integrity of an election regardless, Jessica.

OMG....Jessica, Honestly

First of all, it wasn't a GREAT majority of the country that put this moron back in the white house. So get your facts straight. Things aren't adding up in Florida, Ohio, N.Carolina, and many more. It has been PROVEN that the system has a glitch, and apperently it was running on that glitch Nov 2nd. With the combination of the exit poles, computers that don't run, why wouldn't we "liberals" demand an investigation? Are you "conservatives" afraid you might be without a moron to lead you through the next 4 years????

Jessica,

We definitely agree on one thing: this is a WONDERFUL country we live in. Those of us concerned about the possiblity of vote fraud are trying to keep this country wonderful. We may dislike George Bush immensely, but we are much more concerned that our very democracy could be corrupted. There is a huge difference between this election and the one four years go. Four years ago many of us complained about seemingly dirty tactics, but they were all tactics that could be investigated and reported on. This election is different. Here we have huge number of votes with no paper trail, and lots of circumstantial evidence that those counties without a paper trail were statistically different from those with a paper trail. This is outright fraud, and it means that a few corrupt people can determine the outcome of the election. Do you really think our country would still be WONDERFUL if that turns out to be true?

Jessica,

If there's no problem, please explain how more people than an area has can vote? "We" are sticking to the facts; that's the thing. Reread the post. Not once does it claim there's a stolen election. Nor does it claim even that there was a flaw in the system. Nothing similar. It stated pure facts and you came to any conclusions of wrongdoing on your own.

All I see is facts and republicans defending the election from the conclusions they themselves reached.

Besides, regardless of who won, what is being brought up are valid concerns and our democratic process demands that every vote be counted - counted once and counted accurately. Personally, I'd be way more vocal if Kerry had won because I'd want legitimacy to my candidate (if he had really won) far more than I'd want my candidate. Country before party.

HONESTLY Jessica,

I think we should, like, trust George Bush and stand by him in everything he does cuz, like, he's our president now.

Resume slurping cock. kthxbye

Syd - Let me clarify

My previous comment was related to the Florida allegations only.

The Franklin Co OH situation is a clear screw-up, and there are hundreds of other legitimate problems. As to whether these screw-ups were malicious and the result of fraud, I don't think we know one way or another at this point.

As for Florida, I just wanted to help separate the legitimate from the bogus, so people didn't waste time on the wrong stuff, and didn't wind up compromising their integrity or reputations making sweeping claims to friends, family or press (believe me, when Keith Olberman and his producers find out they got led astray, that'll be the last time they take a tip or feed from whomever their source was on the Florida Counties story, and that's a shame).

I wouldn't rule out foul play in some of those hundreds of instances where it appears there were "malfunctions", but more than likely, most of them are the result of non-malicious screw-ups and human error. For example, in Broward County, FL, no precinct has more than 32,000 voters, so the software on the machines was set to cap at 32,000. This wasn't an "evil" attempt to block votes from Democrats, in fact, it was an attempt to make sure the machines weren't screwed with, and it was all overseen by a very partisan Democratic Supervisor of Elections on behalf of a Democratic dominated County Commission. They just made the human error of forgetting that if the machines were used in multi-precinct early voting, they might have to accept more than 32,000 votes. Serious screw-up (that got caught and fixed), but no conspiracy or fraud.

As for the allegation of more votes than voters in some FL counties, that's the result of someone just providing incorrect numbers, matching non-final voter turnout numbers with final voting numbers. There were no instances in which more votes were cast for President than the turnout. I've checked them.

Also, you will find that Congressman Kendrick Meek spoke publicly to ABC News today and dismissed the "statistical" fraud charges as baseless. Believe me, there's not the slightest chance he would do that without absolute confidence everything was square on those votes.

Last, when you're considering all of this, here's something worth keeping in mind ... While this is a values-based crusade for most of the amateurs who hang out on these blogs, the world of politics is big business. There are interests in Florida alone who poured literally tens of millions of dollars into the Kerry campaign coffers. Believe me when I tell you those people have pros working for them who've sliced and diced the numbers and data, and who were all over the state on their payrolls sniffing for any reason to fight in court, if there was grounds. The fact that you hear nothing from those people, the ones who just watched their millions and millions of dollars invested in a Kerry win go spiraling down the drain, should give you pause before assuming the result was "crooked" or the product of fraud.

I don't mean to insult any of the well-meaning folks here, but they clearly have no idea what the inside of the game looks like and the level of sophistication at which the power players play this game, and just how preposterous it is that they could pull up a page from the Secretary of State and "discover" something that wouldn't have been caught 100 times over already.

It's not what anyone here wants to hear, but Kerry lost this election due to a lousy campaign and inferior, 3rd rate core campaign team. Matching up Bob Schrum and Mary Beth Cahill against Karl Rove and Ken Mehlman is about as ugly a mismatch as I could imagine.

Hi, you all seem to forget that the election of the President of the U.S. doesn't only effect the U.S., it affects the whole world. I am European and I DO WANT TO KNOW if the most powerful man in the world was elected by the American people or by fraud.

I do not care if that would make Kerry look as if he was a bad looser of "the election game" because it is not a game it is BLOODY SERIOUS for many people including your own soldiers in Iraq. And if there is the slightest doubt if the election was clean, then it has to be INVESTIGATED, at least it would be in my country, the papers and TV would be full of it.

I am starting to loose faith in your democracy and I am not the only one over here in Europe. We all live on the same planet after all and what goes on in America cannot be ignored by the rest of the world. I know it is a lot of responsibility for the American people but you are famous to hate nothing more than to be betrayed of your freedom and this is what happens to you and to the rest of the world if this election was manipulated. Please DO something!

Let's admit that there already have been some careless comments made about this issue--for example Oberman pointing out how the Democratic counties went strong for Bush, even though they did the same thing in 92, 96, and 2000. Southern Democrats, anyone?

Still, it's lazy to point out a few false charges and write off the whole issue. We know that a vote counting machine malfunctioned in Ohio--badly. We only know that because it screwed up so badly that it was obvious. Do we have assurances that there are not less perceptible mistakes or malfunctions all across Florida or Ohio? We really do need that assurance. You don't have to recount the whole election, or check every voting machine in the country. Just give us a decent explanation as to how we know that the rest of our election results are good.

If you were driving down the highway and for five seconds your brakes went out, but then worked again, you wouldn't just ignore the problem, you would worry about whether the brake would fail again at a critical moment and you'd get killed.

It's not to late, but it will be if we don't get off our azz's and start calling your elected officals and demanding an investigation into the fraud. The networks too.They are trying to bury this story, with the war and the fucking Laci Perterson story and all the other crap they cram down our throats. Don't concede your vote. Go to www.blackboxvoting.com and do something besides yaking and whining. Hell, Ralf Nader is doing more than the Demorcratic Party. Don't you believe for one moment that Kerry dosen't play a part in this cluster-fuck! Come on, put your spurs on and CRACK that whip!

I would like to ad one comment in regards to this "There are interests in Florida alone who poured literally tens of millions of dollars into the Kerry campaign coffers"... you mean, the fact that the governor of the State is Bush's brother, doesn't give Bush an advantage point in Florida?

Combine that with the privatizacion of democracy folks! e-voting has been proven to be extremelly vulnerable to tampering, the CEO of Diebold sends out memos expressing his willingness to deliver Ohio for the President, and yet we are called sore losers for suspecting this whole business smells foul?

Newsflash people, the Bush administration has you figured out, it doesn't require Democracy as much as creating the Illusion of Democracy, for as long as you believe...

I would like to ad one comment in regards to this "There are interests in Florida alone who poured literally tens of millions of dollars into the Kerry campaign coffers"... you mean, the fact that the governor of the State is Bush's brother, doesn't give Bush an advantage point in Florida?

Combine that with the privatizacion of democracy folks! e-voting has been proven to be extremelly vulnerable to tampering, the CEO of Diebold sends out memos expressing his willingness to deliver Ohio for the President, and yet we are called sore losers for suspecting this whole business smells foul?

Newsflash people, the Bush administration has you figured out, it doesn't require Democracy as much as creating the Illusion of Democracy, for as long as you believe...

Bush won because he got more votes fair and square - the better man won. I think we all agree on that. However, it is essential to investigate and fix any problems found.

As for those heavily registered Dem counties in FL that voted Bush... that has been happening for years. These are Dems who long ago converted to Republican. Worth saying, the Democrats need to worry more about their party than voting irregularities. 2008 is not looking good. Can you imagine Howard Dean as head of DNC and Hillary as the candidate? A gift to Republicans.

Voter Fraud is a serious charge. I mean were not talking prom queen here. What I don't understand is why a voter no matter who their candidate would'nt want this to be investigated and proven one way or the other. Did'nt somebody say freedom and justice for ALL. All being every American citizen. I got questions, I want answers. Untill this is setteled I have no President.

Yo Bubba... it's settled. You have a President. His name is George W. Bush.

Try getting informed, dude. NPR ran a full piece on it today, and they talked about every instance, and all said and done, Bush had way more legal votes. What am I wasting my time for? You're an idiot, and you will never accept Bush.

The Ohio story about the 4000 couldn't be repeated statewide. That county had old machines that were not used anywhere else. What about the fact that there were more registered voters in many urban Ohio counties than people who are over 18? And that voter registration mail came back undeliverable for more than 10,000 voters addresses? Does that worry you? It didn't before the election when Repub were trying to prevent fraud. That is because it was assumed that huge turnout would help Kerry. Now that he lost, everyone suddenly cares about all these perceived "irregularities" - Where were the Dems a month ago? Trying to disqualify late ballots from soldiers in Iraq and let Mary Poppins vote. Elections don't ever go perfectly. But no one seemed to care in the media until Bush won. hmmm...

Sus, find yourselve a program that can de-program you little brainwashed mind. I'm surprised your still here. One would have thougth you would have caught a ride on the Hale-Bopp comet with those Heaven's Gate "folks."

Good point sus. Funny thing is, the Dems accuse the conversatives of being uninformed, uneducated, etc. But, which party benefitted from "Vote or Die", "Choose or Lose", "Vote for Change", "Rock the Vote"... these were campaigns that sought the youth vote, clearly the most easily manipulated vote, and definitely indocrinated from their Government education, liberal entertainers, and Moore's work of fiction? The Dems have to pull out all the stops for every election. Their base, as they age, tend to go with Republicans, so they always have to reach out to the ignorant voter.

It is one thing to say with the profit Amos, "Let justice roll like mighty waters," and quite another to work out the irrigation system. Clearly there is more certainty in recognition of wrongs, than there is in the prescription for their cure.

Dud, how appropriate. I did'nt want to resort to name calling but since I'm an idiot I guess I will excuse myself this time. I cound'nt be more in aggrement with you, you are a dud. But I don't suppose your lonely though. There are least 58,000,000 more dud's to keep you company.

This is grrrreeeaaaattt readin' folks!!! Bush MAY have had the most votes, but there are too many opportunities for deciet here and we need to make certain all those eligible can vote without acrimony or antagonism, that these votes will be accurately tallied and that there is an accurate/reliable system to recount when/if necessary. But Don H... the better man won? Major counseling and perhaps some substantial medication may help with these extreme delusions... Duh-bya is, to quote the famous M. Python, "a twit". Of course, in my humble opinion no offense intended et cetera et cetera etcetera....

Yes - the old, tired, out of gas idea that Bush is an idiot.

Well, the idiot just cleaned Kerry's clock, got the Seneate Minority leader kicked out on his ass, took Edwards spot in the Senate, brought in a few more seats in both houses, all with the publics knowledge that the Superior Court is going to have at least two new judges elected by Bush. Yes... you sure got me, chromeddomer :) Keep underestimating - we love it.